The last time I checked RoD was two weeks ago and everything was quiet on the Western front, as the old folks used to say. Imagine my surprise to visit today and see some 70+ comments on the last post. Granted, more then a few of them were dups (ahem, AMPA) which I have laboriously deleted down to their originals, but still a lively discussion on multiple fronts has obviously sprung back to life here.
I'm particularly pleased that the innie/outtie debate is not one of these. What a fun food fight we all had over at Salon! Now that it has finally wound down, though, it's great to have this place all to ourselves. (As always, current SY practitioners are welcome here. As always, none but the most intrepid seem to ever comment out of fear of being put on 'the list'. Who is left in SF to maintain said dreaded list is an open question! Nevertheless, it seems just us outties milling around here.)
There are several dominant themes that have emerged in the comments to the last post, and rather than reply to them there, I thought I'd tease two of these out further by making them the subject of a new post:
1. artsquiggle commented that his attention has turned from SY to his practical life which, partly as a result of his many years of practice, has been "left in shambles". Another reader seconded that emotion:
- "My practical life went down the tubes. cannot get back those 25 + years of endless exhausting seva and every last nickel I had of dakshina spent while I should have been developing a career. The opprotunity cost of spending the most productive years of your life in Siddha Yoga, astronomical. Lately there are many anniversaries, retirements, celebrations of accomplishment to attend, not for me. I cringe to think of how with all the talent, energy I had when I came to Siddha Yoga in my early twenties, I managed to not establish myself securely. No, I burned it all up, flushed it down the toilet of a complete charade."
2. AMPA writes that his wife has fallen into a deep depression over G's disappearing act:
- "My wife survives on my very sufficient income and other resources rather nicely. BUT, the survival of her SELF-IDENTITY is still utterly dependent on Siddha Yoga. Her despondency on the state of the "path" and the unavailability of Malti to her adoring devotees, makes her utterly, crushingly depressed. Everything has suffered as a result of it in our family life. She is often totally unclear in her thinking, her judgement and discernment are often utterly clouded, her ability to think sharply is now totally dulled and so is her former ability to get things done quickly. It's like she's moving in slow motion and I know it's only partially based on physical fatigue. The emotional fatigue and baggage Malti has left her with, is painfully sad to watch. I feel so good to be free of any dependency on the Guru anymore. And I watch her, in her despair, and it makes me despair for her."
These are both issues that all of us are dealing with in greater or lesser ways. For instance, I just applied for a job at a major non-profit and was asked to provide evidence of my prior volunteer commitments. How, I wondered, could I not list Siddha Yoga? I have literally spent years in 'selfless service' to the Guru and the path; my bona fides for giving back should be spotless. But, then again, how can I reference those years, what actual value did they have beyond enriching a fleecing charlatan now fled? Even if I bucked up and tried to spin that experience into something useful to humanity, who is around to verify all that work? Who could I possibly list as a contact? Of course, I have it relatively easy compared to many, many others; I held a job 'in-the-world' throughout my many years of practice. Those who were on the 'inside' and are now out face a much tougher dilemma since their primary experience of work--in what is rapidly being recognized as a cult--is in danger of being called into question.
Please, if you have made this transition from on-staff to in-the-world work, consider posting your experience here. Many people like Anon above are struggling to re-establish themselves in a tough job market, with little or no savings, and real questions about how to craft their 'seva' into relevant experience an employer will value. I think it is very important, as well, that we re-affirm for each other that what seems like wasted effort now was truly was truly important work to the community of believers at the time. None of the wonderful experiences we still cherish of our time in SY could have happened without the 'endless exhausting seva' of the ashram staff.
Finally, the issue of depression caused by the dissolution of belief in SY. Some of us, like AMPA, have loved ones who are still tenaciously clinging to belief despite the obvious (to us) slow-death of the Siddha path. But, as Older but Wiser observed, if we are honest with ourselves we've all gone through depression over the dying of what we thought was our light. I still struggle with it from time to time. There is no replacement for the feelings of certainty, security and absolute safety that a global belief system like Siddha Yoga provides. If we don't jump to another belief system, if we are now mostly allergic to belief systems, we're thrown back onto our own resources. We're left trusting in only ourselves during a time in life and in an economy when so much seems so precarious. It is scary. We need each other to get through this.
126 comments:
alas, my seva was always kitchen prep, chopping veggies and such. Not very apropos for the job market. At least it's made me a better cook lol!
Cobra:
ha ha, I'm glad you feel it;s OK to lol out people who might need your help
SeekHer wrote:
"I think it is very important, as well, that we re-affirm for each other that what seems like wasted effort now was truly was truly important work to the community of believers at the time. None of the wonderful experiences we still cherish of our time in SY could have happened without the 'endless exhausting seva' of the ashram staff."
SeekHer,
Excellent idea! Sharing our ideas & experiences on how to establish one's self in the world after SY because this is a big and often dicey challenge for many. It has been for me.
Since I was only on staff about 2 and a half years, and it's already been, e-gads--over 20 years now, I realize my thoughts on this may not be so helpful to anyone who recently exited SY and/or the ashram.
But, here goes...
Even though at times, I felt uneasy about listing my SY involvement on my resumes and in my portfolio, the actual outcome in job arenas was so much better than what my fearful mind imagined. First of all, despite what some others may have done which has brought much heartbreak, I know that during my time in SY, I gave the best of my skills and efforts, as I usually do on any job, regardless of criticism. Therefore, I feel no shame in that. It was all honest, hard work and I had the samples to prove it. Accounting for that gap of time as another job full of skills and problem solving worked out better for me and actually often sparked curiosity and interest in employers, to my happy surprise.
Plus, even though I made a career change in 2002, therefore have no need to list my former type of work history, I find I can still draw on my experience of learning to work with and get along with so many different people of different cultures, different languages from all over the world. This ability is very powerful, especially in today's market. Empoyers are VERY interested in people with language and communication skills across the (BUZZ WORD) "multicultural" sprectrum. Also, the ability to be flexible with time, with others, with assignments is another winner. Really, there should be no shame in the employment & development of our skills during our engagement in SY. So many of us earnestly gave our time & talents, working till we dropped.
Bottom line: No one, can take away your relationship to your own work and self development process. You, and you alone own it. And, use the power of networking. Use friends as references. And, if necessary to ease that sting of fickle mind, use some psychology on yourself with a little "fake it till ya make it." Works for me.
Hope that helps someone.
artsquiggle
>>"If we don't jump to another belief system, if we are now mostly allergic to belief systems, we're thrown back onto our own resources. We're left trusting in only ourselves during a time in life and in an economy when so much seems so precarious. It is scary. We need each other to get through this. "<<
Hi Seeker,
thanks for opening this all up. This whole combination:allergy to belief systems, the financial/emotional fallout from years in siddha yoga and the shock of realizing there is no "safety net"...only trusting in ourselves... it's that golden opportunity (or kick in the pants)to break through to Reality, even though it's terrifying. It can feel kind of like standing on the edge of the planet looking out into the Void, realizing there is no way you can turn back, all doors have been, effectively, shut...all you can do is leap out into it. No wonder people avoid this place! But, once you leap, amazing support is there and you realize it was always there.
been around the block
(s)
Depression.
I wanted to mention this. There is a real physical issue that needs to be addressed when you've been on an extreme path like siddha yoga (and, if you took it seriously, it was extreme). Because of the way the yoga is structured, there is a constant jerking around of the energy system...the hours, the intense seva load, the chanting, the food, the living conditions the cognitive dissonance, etc. The body is being asked to rise beyond its real capacity over and over again. In athletic training, this is a strategy for getting stronger, but, in the case of athletic training, there are enforced rest periods and days off so the system doesn't burn out. Most of us can remember being able to "do" things during those long seva hours in Fallsburg that we would not normally be able to do. Many of us remember returning home and "crashing" energetically. We were in this cycle, many of us for more than 10 or 15 years. It's like asking the body/mind to live in a constant state of intense crises. It plays havoc with the immune system. When the goad of the yoga is no longer there, the whole system (not just the mind) can fall into depression mode just to give itself a resting place.
Although I am, personally, very active physically, I still have siddha yoga induced immune system issues. I have to be very careful to focus on grounding energy through qigong. Otherwise, it's very easy for me to get back into that syndrome...intense highs and then crashing. I was not that way before siddha yoga; now it appears that I have those tendencies. That, and living without a "safety net" financially are the two siddha yoga "gifts" that keep on giving. Each one has an upside as scarey as they can feel at times: I have to pay alot of attention to how I am moving through the world and I have to trust that, ultimately, I will be ok in a culture where growing old is problematic on alot of levels.
However, the REAL gift..the absolute destruction of my ability to "believe in conceptual systems" anymore.....is beyond price!
Qigong,t'ai chi), accupuncture and the great outdoors all helped me to come back into a sort of tentative energetic balance.
been around the block
(s)...just going to be s. now. Ithink that was my old tag here?
I have been a devotee of SY for the past 30+ years. For the past 6 years I too have been having the type of dreams Artsquiggle has described (huge dirty ashrams with many messy wandering folks hanging around). Until last spring I clung to the hope that SY would emerge in some new form, ready to transport me once again into a world of wonder and awe. But it became clear to me that SY had not and would not ever own its dark side, and hence could not ever transform.
I am so grateful to this blog and the Salon discussions (and to each and every participant) for such open, complete and heartfelt sharing. I want to acknowledge the bravery of those who have stood against the Foundation for many years in telling their truth to power. I acknowledge that I personally knew about just about everything mentioned in those letters, Baba’s pedophilia, GM’s relentless persecution of her brother, the mind-control tactics in the ashram, shady financial dealings and more….all of it. Through it all, I managed to remain silent; I am not proud of this. I am truly sorry to all those who have been hurt at the expense of my silence.
But I am finding it is not enough to be hurt, angry, upset, depressed and disappointed. There is not enough of that to sustain my curiosity, my preferences, my life. I am currently sifting through the ashes identifying what it was that kept me in SY for so long, kept my interest /enthusiasm and what kept me so quiet. While I think SY has a lot to be ashamed of; I am not ashamed of my service in SY. I learned some pretty fundamentally amazing things in SY, things that I did not know before. I acknowledge that I could have learnt any and all of these things in another place, from another teacher or in another way….but well, I didn’t.
I learned to tolerate myself. I learned to sit by myself and observe my thoughts without judging them, without acting on them. Pretty basic, you say…yes, but I can do this now. I can in fact do it well. So well that I see the place of joy within me is…ME. Not the place I named SY or GM….but in fact my very own ME.
I learned to lead with enthusiasm, with joy. I learned through years of seva that it is not the difficulty of the task but the mindset from which it is done that makes something either ‘easy’ or ‘hard’. I have learned that to inspire with smiles, joy, community and empathy gets the job done easily.
I am able to recognize control tactics and understand that they come from fear, and are effective only upon the fearful. I love my SY community…all of them, the innies and the outties. I refuse to judge any of them for their fearfulness. We do really matter to each other. I acknowledge my own fear of losing contact with them; hence the anno post.
Owning My Own (OMO)
Very beautiful, open and loving.
Thank you Omo.
OMO,
Really appreciate this entry from you. Thank you.
Thanks also to SeekHer (Howdy stranger!) for refocusing the conversation with your characteristic humor and thoughtfulness.
- Lucid
p.s. to all: I'm thinkin' if you can live and work in a SYDA ashram you can live and work anywhere. (The refrain from "New York, New York" comes to mind...)
What, need my help chopping veggies? I think thou has missed the point verily!
What a lovely message, OMO. Thank you so much.
I too am so glad this blog exists as a place where innies and outties can feel safe to explore.
Older but wiser
Heard recited on local radio, made me think of discussion here. Look forward to following many threads. The object of an intense and all consuming love is lost forever and found to have been a complete sham. So this poem helps to be up and doing in the present.
What the Heart of the Young Man Said to the Psalmist
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem.
Life is real! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.
Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
Is our destined end or way;
But to act, that each to-morrow
Find us farther than to-day.
Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
And our hearts, though stout and brave,
Still, like muffled drums, are beating
Funeral marches to the grave.
In the world’s broad field of battle,
In the bivouac of Life,
Be not like dumb, driven cattle!
Be a hero in the strife!
Trust no Future, howe’er pleasant!
Let the dead Past bury its dead!
Act,—act in the living Present!
Heart within, and God o’erhead!
Lives of great men all remind us
We can make our lives sublime,
And, departing, leave behind us
Footprints on the sands of time;
Footprints, that perhaps another,
Sailing o’er life’s solemn main,
A forlorn and shipwrecked brother,
Seeing, shall take heart again.
Let us, then, be up and doing,
With a heart for any fate;
Still achieving, still pursuing,
Learn to labor and to wait.
>>>"I have been a devotee of SY for the past 30+ years. For the past 6 years I too have been having the type of dreams Artsquiggle has described (huge dirty ashrams with many messy wandering folks hanging around). "<<
Dear OMO,
I find this really interesting. Just before I left and for around a year afterwards, I had the same kind of recurrent dream..usually involving Nityananda's murti...fenced off and padlocked, leaves blowing around, dirty marble floors,leaking roofs, scraggly looking people, glimpses of swamis meeting in boardrooms with tickertapes and big screen tvs.
really odd patterning, don't you think?
best,
s.
I agree with Lucid..if you can live and work in a SY ashram you can live and work anywhere… I would expand it to say that serving as long term staff is equivalent to earning a MBA at a prestige institution. Really, think about it. Where else could you learn these crazy skills around working with an international, multi lingual, multicultural, spaced-out staff directed by entirely unrealistic expectation.
I am talking about every department. Kitchen choppers included, Cobra. Remember the Brussels Sprouts for 8,000 Caper? I sat in on that menu meeting and no one said, “That’s crazy…we cannot prep 45,000 little cabbages in 2 days! And do all the rest of the prep for this huge Bandara as well!!!” He just ordered the sprouts and got more choppers to work longer hours. Chopping Room supervisors adopted the ‘Yes We Can! stand’ added some good hearted humor, played a loud chant and we laughed and laughed and chanted, while peeling the dead leaves off, trimming the base and cutting a little x in the base of EACH little Brussels Sprout!
There are thousands of examples of these outrageous projects completed in ridiculously short time frames from laying the sod, construction of the Mandap, publication of Darshan Magazine, reorganizing the bookstore …everyone has an hilarious story. Unrealistic expectation runs American business; it runs American politics; it is a big part of American academia. People who understand how to produce good results under the pressures of unrealistic expectations are always in demand.
So what did we learn about how to produce these results? I think the common elements are these: enthusiasm, teamwork, community, humor, empathy (not sympathy), expecting the best outcome, encouraging individual’s best (reach beyond your limits), honoring differences. Sounds like some new age management textbook stuff…right? What makes it different for SY staffers is that we have actually done it. We have been part of an organization that has routinely produced those results for years!
I know several people who started to work at IBM in their 20’s and are now being laid off (just as they are reaching retirement age), who are saying that they have wasted 25 years of their careers . They feel exploited, over-worked, unappreciated, depressed, deserted and unable to find new jobs. When we were doing seva we were energized, excited, happy, blissful, perhaps. My IBM friends were happy in their jobs too, until they were laid off. I know people who would return from SMA after an intense weekend’s seva depleted and some who returned energized. Some who leave SY staff are happy and fulfilled in their jobs others are not. Perhaps it is more of a question of mind set over circumstance.
One of the important things I learned in SY is that I alone determine if an experience is positive or negative. This huge revelation came to me in a workshop on Patanjali. It was very empowering to know that no matter what anyone else thought or what was generally considered rational; I could always choose my own best interest. So think about it, you are free to join me in packing a suitcase (or a trunk) with all the best bits from and about SY and moving on.
Owning My Own
>>>". Some who leave SY staff are happy and fulfilled in their jobs others are not. Perhaps it is more of a question of mind set over circumstance.
One of the important things I learned in SY is that I alone determine if an experience is positive or negative."<<
Dear OMO,
I've been reading your posts, accepting that your experience of siddha yoga was very different from mine but this last statement is something that I recognize from siddha yoga, something that was used, ultimately, to "blame" people for their uneasiness with what was going on by telling them that it was their own negativity that was creating their experience. You know, the old, "change the prescription on your glasses".
When I was in the yoga, I did tremendous amounts of seva and, in fact, was once held up by gurumayi as an "example" of how to be a "good devotee, "an examplary sevite" (both in Fallsburg and in GSP.
You say, " I think the common elements are these: enthusiasm, teamwork, community, humor, empathy (not sympathy), expecting the best outcome, encouraging individual’s best (reach beyond your limits), honoring differences"
I never once had this kind of seva experience. not once. There was humor, yes, (usually "black humor") and, underlying everything, there was tremendous fear on the part of the seva supervisors, fear of not being good enough, not doing it perfectly, not meeting the guru's expectations. That fear was usually taken out on the sevites.
>>"So think about it, you are free to join me in packing a suitcase (or a trunk) with all the best bits from and about SY and moving on."<<<
this is also very troubling to read. What about accountability? What about ethics? What about responsibility to undo suffering we may have (inadvertently) cause to others?
It seems to me, based on my personal experience post-syda, that there is an awful lot of inner work that needs to be done regarding one's involvement with siddha yoga after the fact and it is this deep investigation of one's motivations that can, eventually, lead to a clearer understanding.
respectfully,
s
My extreme seva experiences varied from what OMO describes to what S describes. But even most of the really exhilarating times (outside of dishroom maybe) were characterized by a hyper-active kind of energy that I don't think leads to anything like spiritual awakening or freedom. It rather had the effect of ungrounding us, making us giddy. And part of the excitement was usually related to the awareness that if we screwed up, the consequences would be pretty painful--humiliation, dressing down, belittling, etc. It was really reminiscent of the energy you see on one of those reality TV shows where teams of people are asked to do really difficult or disgusting things, or with the game shows where a lot of money is at stake based on knowing some trivia or doing some silly acrobatic feat. People get hyped up and a lot of it has to do with the risk involved--either I win big (the guru smiles at me) or I go home in disgrace. When a bunch of people are put together and overworked for weeks or months, I think a natural fellow feeling, teamwork and empathy can arise. So can envy and back-stabbing. Which happens probably depends a lot on who's in charge. I did lots of different sevas--housekeeping, welcoming, hall, PR (ugh, sorry), administrative, speaking, teaching. I had some very kind and skillful seva supervisors, and some absolute tyrants--people who would never survive in management outside that tight little world. The closer I got to the inner circle and GM, the more pervasive was the atmosphere of fear. I learned some people skills doing some of those sevas, and worked with some terrific people, but that was not the main take-away from the 18-20 hour days. The main things were to stay ahead of what's wanted, keep your mind in the future, don't relax, don't let your guard down, and never never complain about the lack of rest.
I think finding the things that we're grateful for in our SY histories is essential to healing, but in my mind that doesn't equate to assuming the guru or the organization had our best interests in mind when they decided on a course of action or created a project for us to implement. Even those with good intentions trying to create something beautiful were subject to mercurial whim. It was toxic!
Ignoring very real ethical abuses in favor of being "positive"--ugh. That's just pollyanna, head-in-the-sand, not being positive in any authentic way. A truly positive approach to life includes exposing wrongs, not denying they exist. When wrongs are denied, they fester and infection spreads. IMO, of course.
Older but wiser
S and Older but Wiser:
I don't understand the purpose of either of your last comments. Remember, the topic under discussion is how to position the work we've done in SY ashrams so that it is relevant and valuable to potential employers. Cobra made a light-hearted and self-deprecating remark about his kitchen seva, and OMO countered by saying, in effect, hold on, don't dismiss that experience so lightly. OMO then did, I think, a fantastic job of reframing similar seva experience in a very positive, upbeat way that could be related on any job interview.
He/she even turned a war story about prepping 45,000 brussels sprouts into a funny anecdote that illustrated the main benefits of that work experience, e.g. learning how to lead a team to accomplish a task, no matter how quixotic, with enthusiasm, humor and compassion.
OMO then went on to point out that being disheartened and down on one's personal work history is not isolated to SY sevites--many people who have lost their job security after working for large corporations for decades face the same challenges. The important thing is to remain positive and take the reins of how you view your job experience, your value as an employee and your value as a human being.
"S", you read the same comment by OMO but then proceeded to read into it a hidden agenda that I doubt any one else sees. Just because someone utilizes the power of positive thinking during a difficult time does not mean they are being sucked back into a black hole of magical Siddha Yoga thinking. Just because they are making the decision to focus on what good they can from their seva experience in Siddha Yoga does not mean they are denying "abuses"! Really, where in the world did you get that?!?
And OBW, how does attempting to parse the good that you are leaving Siddha Yoga with mean that you are in any way denying that there was bad or that you were at times manipulated?
I read OMO's comment and thought here's someone who has made a break with the past and is sharing how he/she is trying to move forward in a positive way. I read your comments and see two people stuck in some incessant SY loop where never is there not a discouraging word. That's your right, but I wish you would think twice about sharing that negativity in a discussion about how to best craft a life post SY.
Whatever crappy stuff I went through with sevites at my center has taught me how to better deal with real sharks in my professional world. I already had an identity in my professional word before I started SY. Sometimes wonder had I used my time better, less seva, less visits to the SMA, I might be further along in my career. However, the upside is I navigate around the sharks better. My instincts and observations became sharper. I can feel people or situations out quicker. I make decisions by trusting my instincts. I do believe the meditations help because I really listen to myself better.
I have been rethinking seva and I think it should be something that gives you joy, and that you do willingly. For instance: one day a year I do a huge Halloween display and hand out candy to little kids. I have fun, the kids have fun, the parents have fun and I feel I am doing something to bring happiness to people. I have embraced that as a seva(and because I adore Halloween).
In the time I spent at SF and Oakland it seemed that seva was not that voluntary. It was something that was expected of you and if you didn't do it you were not as good a yogi or yogini and made to feel bad. There was a lot of pressure for people to perform, much of which was unreasonable in scope. People had to push and push and push to get things done and all that does is wear you down. Whatever we have done as seva in whatever capacity as a plus has expanded our pool of experience, and perhaps gained new abilities. The negative is Syda exploiting us for cheap labor. I do hate to admit it, I don't want to believe that's what it was but looking back in a lot of ways it was.
>>"
I don't understand the purpose of either of your last comments. Remember, the topic under discussion is how to position the work we've done in SY ashrams so that it is relevant and valuable to potential employers."<<<
Hi Seeker,
I personally would not want to work in an office or teaching situation (both of which I have experienced)when there is a basic ethical problem that is not being addressed. If I was a "potential employer" (for instance, if I were on a hiring committee for a university..which I have been) and someone applied for a teaching job and listed "ashram seva" on his/her resume or citied any quasi-religious organization as a "former employer", I would want to know a bit about the context, the ashram, the guru, the history and the current mind-set of the applicant regarding what I would probably perceive as a "religious affiliation". The current political climate lends itself to this kind of inquiry."
.
"S", you read the same comment by OMO but then proceeded to read into it a hidden agenda that I doubt any one else sees. Just because someone utilizes the power of positive thinking during a difficult time does not mean they are being sucked back into a black hole of magical Siddha Yoga thinking. Just because they are making the decision to focus on what good they can from their seva experience in Siddha Yoga does not mean they are denying "abuses"! Really, where in the world did you get that?!?
Seek-her. I think you are actually reading things into what I said. I did not talk about magical thinking,hidden agendas, denying abuses, black holes etc. I don't tend to think that way about things. I was responding to the way the suggestions were framed...the "move on" buzzwords, the references to Pantanjali, etc. especially to the invitation to "join OMO to pack our suitcases with the best bits from syda and move on".
So..here's my work history...50years of teaching painting (dealing with university and art-school faculty meetings and search committees) with side jobs working for non-profits (Oxfam, TransAfrica, etc.) and miscellaneous "service jobs" (lifeguard,sales person,carpenter, etc.), all concurrent with a career as a painter. Here is what I found useful: integrity. For what it's worth, that was what I was trying to point out. I seem to have been unclear.
respectfully,
s
Hi Seeker,
I personally would not want to work in an office or teaching situation (both of which I have experienced)when there is a basic ethical problem that is not being addressed. If I was a "potential employer" (for instance, if I were on a hiring committee for a university..which I have been) and someone applied for a teaching job and listed "ashram seva" on his/her resume or citied any quasi-religious organization as a "former employer", I would want to know a bit about the context, the ashram, the guru, the history and the current mind-set of the applicant regarding what I would probably perceive as a "religious affiliation". The current political climate lends itself to this kind of inquiry."
Yeah, and good luck to anyone trying to find a real world job who, when asked about their 2, 3 or 12 years of work with SYDA on a job interview, launches into a disquisition about the ashram, the Guru, Kashmir Shavaism and the history of abuses. Sorry, but I don't think you're seeing the forest for the trees here, and I stick with my advice that anyone trying to reframe their SYDA experience in a useful way to employers follow OMO's model over yours.
Oh, and PS to "s"
Asking a job applicant to describe "their current mindset about what I would probably perceive as a religious affiliation" is against the law, just like asking a person's age or ethnicity.
>>"Oh, and PS to "s"
Asking a job applicant to describe "their current mindset about what I would probably perceive as a religious affiliation" is against the law, just like asking a person's age or ethnicity."
Seek-her,
wouldn't there be less obvious ways to discuss the fact that the work experience was in an ashram (other than those I described)? I imagine so. If someone's work experience was for a non-profit, for instance, wouldn't the interviewer be interested in how that would apply in a "for profit" business? The parameters are pretty different.
But...I also would like to apologize here. I think you are right. I'm not really staying within the suggested guidelines for what is being discussed. And I think what you are trying to do (help each other to survive in the job market) is very valuable and useful. So please accept my apology for moving things offtrack. I'll just read for a bit and have my morning coffee. Thanks for providing this forum.
s.
SeekHer et al,
I would like to be clear. Earning a MBA is intensive and serious work, as is dealing with SY. It is not unlike the most of the institutions and corporation for which I have worked or consulted. It is probably not more financially irresponsible, more corrupt, or more unethical. That being said its sins are more egregious due to the ‘spiritual’ context it sets up for itself; but one would then have to consider the Roman Catholic Church as well. Within the framework of SY I learned to manage into and around the fear and craziness of my seva supervisors, fellow sevites and the unrealistic expectations framed by the leadership. SY is a pressure cooker due to the residential nature of the community and the ideals embodied by the living guru, gazing out from each photograph.
What produced results for me was employing enthusiasm, teamwork, community, humor, empathy (not sympathy), expecting the best outcome, encouraging individual’s best (reach beyond your limits), and honoring differences. (If some readers have NEVER experienced these elements in the context of their sevas, then I ask, why did they continue to do sevsa?) I learned these techniques within the context SY. I am not ashamed of what I have learned. I am truly sorry many, many people have been hurt by their involvement in SY, but that does not change nor does it diminish what I have learned having been a part of it. If you want to say that you have wasted 10-30 years of your life on a spiritual path that was exposed as a cult, a fraud, irresponsible, corrupt, unethical; feel free. However, I would say that doing that really lacks integrity. What makes your life so worthless?
Framing SY for the job market is not really so difficult. Many people who have worked for the Roman Catholic Church, the Episcopal Church, and various Jewish and Muslim organizations find other jobs in the not-for-profit sector and corporations every day. Patanjali ‘s Yoga Sutras are to be found in practically every library, at Amazon.com and at Borders. Lots of people meditate, lots more do hatha yoga. Saying you have worked for ‘a large residential retreat site in upstate New York’ is pretty neutral. Focus on discussing your specific projects in interview settings in neutral ways and avoid SY jargon. Look around on Facebook for SYDA folks (former seva supervisors, fellow sevites) who are working in the field you want to be in and get recommendations from them. I would advise only talking about the aspects of SY you experience in a positive light during an interview or on your resume.
Owning My Own
>. (If some readers have NEVER experienced these elements in the context of their sevas, then I ask, why did they continue to do sevsa?) I learned these techniques within the context SY. I am not ashamed of what I have learned. I am truly sorry many, many people have been hurt by their involvement in SY, but that does not change nor does it diminish what I have learned having been a part of it. If you want to say that you have wasted 10-30 years of your life on a spiritual path that was exposed as a cult, a fraud, irresponsible, corrupt, unethical; feel free. However, I would say that doing that really lacks integrity. What makes your life so worthless?aaaa',,
Dear OMO,
Apparently I caused alot of unpleasantness that I didn't intend to. Some of what you say above is so inflammatory, though, that I feel I have to respond (epecially the implications that people feel their lives are "worthless", that they are lacking integrity or even the assumption that they did not enjoy doing seva). I'm assuming some of these remarks are directed at me since you quote me obliquely so...just to be clear: I loved doing seva, which is why I did so much of it and why I continued to do it despite the conditions. I loved "serving", offering whatever skills I had. I truly enjoyed the act of seva. What was problematic for me, and probably others here, was the hierarchical structure and how that structure affected the attitude of the supervisors, particularly.
I don't think anyone here said that he or she had "wasted 20 or 30 years of their lives" unless I missed that.
I don't understand your last sentence..."What makes your life so worthless?" Is that a question? or a statement? Did anyone here express that thought? Again, I may have missed it.
I apologize directly to you for setting off this really nasty line of communication. This is just a little too reminiscent of siddha yoga for me so you can see why I eventually left. I can appear to be a know-it-all at times. I know myself so I know that I don't know; I'm just expressing opinions, sometimes relevant and sometimes not.
Hope this can end this part of the discussion. You, obviously, have alot to offer people who are trying to get back into the job market. Since I'm "retired", my input is not as helpful.
so...peace,
s.
>. (If some readers have NEVER experienced these elements in the context of their sevas, then I ask, why did they continue to do sevsa?) I learned these techniques within the context SY. I am not ashamed of what I have learned. I am truly sorry many, many people have been hurt by their involvement in SY, but that does not change nor does it diminish what I have learned having been a part of it. If you want to say that you have wasted 10-30 years of your life on a spiritual path that was exposed as a cult, a fraud, irresponsible, corrupt, unethical; feel free. However, I would say that doing that really lacks integrity. What makes your life so worthless?aaaa',,
Dear OMO,
Apparently I caused alot of unpleasantness that I didn't intend to. Some of what you say above is so inflammatory, though, that I feel I have to respond (epecially the implications that people feel their lives are "worthless", that they are lacking integrity or even the assumption that they did not enjoy doing seva). I'm assuming some of these remarks are directed at me since you quote me obliquely so...just to be clear: I loved doing seva, which is why I did so much of it and why I continued to do it despite the conditions. I loved "serving", offering whatever skills I had. I truly enjoyed the act of seva. What was problematic for me, and probably others here, was the hierarchical structure and how that structure affected the attitude of the supervisors, particularly.
I don't think anyone here said that he or she had "wasted 20 or 30 years of their lives" unless I missed that.
I don't understand your last sentence..."What makes your life so worthless?" Is that a question? or a statement? Did anyone here express that thought? Again, I may have missed it.
I apologize directly to you for setting off this really nasty line of communication. This is just a little too reminiscent of siddha yoga for me so you can see why I eventually left. I can appear to be a know-it-all at times. I know myself so I know that I don't know; I'm just expressing opinions, sometimes relevant and sometimes not.
Hope this can end this part of the discussion. You, obviously, have alot to offer people who are trying to get back into the job market. Since I'm "retired", my input is not as helpful.
so...peace,
s.
OBW here.
Whoa, hadn't checked the comments for a while and see my last comment had a pretty negative effect here. Just wanting to say to SeekHer "point taken." I can see my comments weren't exactly pertinent to those seeking to frame their SY experience in a way that helps them find employment now. I was reacting to what sounded like glossing over the disfunction in SY in OMO's comment. Maybe I misread that. If so, I apologize.
I don't particularly like being characterized as being in a "negative SY loop." For the most part I have forgiven those in SY who harmed me, including GM. My feeling for those people involved is almost entirely compassion at this point, six years out. I still care for the others in SY I worked with, though they have no interest in continuing to know me--because it's risky, not because they are not nice people. But I'm still looking at my experience in the twenty years I was involved with an eye to untangling the sources of the disfunction, which look subtler and subtler as time goes on--and include energies that at the time I defined as purely positive. I imagine looking at all that will continue. It doesn't feel negative to me. But I accept that it might look different to others.
I think it's great what goes on here, no intention to screw it up.
Older but wiser
DEAR, DEAR RESPECTED S Part 1,
IN YOUR OWN WORDS I've been reading your posts, accepting that your experience of siddha yoga was very different from mine but this last statement is something that I recognize from siddha yoga, something that was used, ultimately, to "blame" people for their uneasiness with what was going on by telling them that it was their own negativity that was creating their experience. You know, the old, "change the prescription on your glasses".
IN MY WORDS I do not, nor did I ‘blame’ anyone. I did not say or suggest that you or anyone ‘change the prescription of their glasses’. I did suggest that it is possible for me, and perhaps for others to find positive aspects of SY that serve in life and on the resume after leaving SY.
IN YOUR WORDS When I was in the yoga, I did tremendous amounts of seva and, in fact, was once held up by gurumayi as an "example" of how to be a "good devotee, "an examplary sevite" (both in Fallsburg and in GSP.
You say, " I think the common elements are these: enthusiasm, teamwork, community, humor, empathy (not sympathy), expecting the best outcome, encouraging individual’s best (reach beyond your limits), honoring differences"
I never once had this kind of seva experience. not once. There was humor, yes, (usually "black humor") and, underlying everything, there was tremendous fear on the part of the seva supervisors, fear of not being good enough, not doing it perfectly, not meeting the guru's expectations. That fear was usually taken out on the sevites.
IN MY WORDS I apologize for not acknowledging you had experienced seva with black humor …and black humor only. I still wonder if you NEVER experienced enthusiasm, teamwork, community, empathy, expectation of best outcomes, and encouragement in individuals best, what did you experience in seva to make you do it? Why did you continue to do seva if all you experienced was the fear of the supervisors or fear of your own inadequacy? If you felt the fear was taken out on you, the sevite; why for heaven sakes did you do so much seva?
I have acknowledged the fear(and real craziness) present in sevites, and seva supervisors. It is part of the unrealistic expectation. SY is not alone in this, it is prevalent is American industry, academia, politics, everywhere in the workplace. SY was a pressure cooker of fear, abuse and craziness. Those of us who discovered a way around and through it have a real skill, I think.
IN YOUR WORDS>>"So think about it, you are free to join me in packing a suitcase (or a trunk) with all the best bits from and about SY and moving on."<<<
this is also very troubling to read. What about accountability?
What about ethics? What about responsibility to undo suffering we may have (inadvertently) cause to others?
IN MY WORDS What about accountability? How are you handling that one? I believe I am accountable to myself, first. If I find some things about SY that serve me now, to whom else am I accountable?
Is it unethical to embrace some aspect of a path you no longer embrace? Is it unethical to grow into new ideas and hold on to others?
What are you doing to undo the suffering you have caused to others? Do you have some specific recommendations for me?
Owning My Own
DEAR, DEAR RESPECTED S Part 2
IN YOUR WORDS It seems to me, based on my personal experience post-syda, that there is an awful lot of inner work that needs to be done regarding one's involvement with siddha yoga after the fact and it is this deep investigation of one's motivations that can, eventually, lead to a clearer understanding.
IN MY WORDS Please describe the ‘inner work’ you have done and its fruits. I would be interested. What is your ‘clear understanding’. I am certain many would be uplifted to know.
IN YOUR WORDS Seek-her. I think you are actually reading things into what I said. I did not talk about magical thinking,hidden agendas, denying abuses, black holes etc. I don't tend to think that way about things. I was responding to the way the suggestions were framed...the "move on" buzzwords, the references to Pantanjali, etc. especially to the invitation to "join OMO to pack our suitcases with the best bits from syda and move on".
IN MY WORDS FYI ‘move-on’ is not a buzzword. Patanjali is available on the shelf at Borders. Sorry you do not like the ”frame”.
IN YOUR WORDS Here is what I found useful: integrity. For what it's worth, that was what I was trying to point out. I seem to have been unclear.
IN MY WORDS I learned these techniques within the context of SY. I am not ashamed of what I have learned. I am truly sorry many, many people have been hurt by their involvement in SY, but that does not change nor does it diminish what I have learned having been a part of it. If you want to say that you have wasted 10-30 years of your life on a spiritual path that was exposed as a cult, a fraud, irresponsible, corrupt, unethical; feel free. However, I would say that doing that really lacks integrity. What makes your life so worthless?
I have read a lot of the material here on RoD. Frankly, a lot of people are locked in a stand that nothing having anything vaguely to do with SY or organized philosophy of any kind has anything to offer them. They may not realize it but it diminishes them. The taboo includes any kind of positive thinking or ideas from a discarded path. To this I say ‘phooey’! Cherry pick, steal, nab whatever serves you, from where ever you find it. This is what integrity is. Make yourself whole. You are worth a whole, whole lot!
Owning My Own
Dear OMO,
I think my last post pretty much explained how i feel regarding seva so let's let it go at that, shall we? I suspect you and I will not be able to communicate very well, judging from the level of sarcasm so..let's just let it go.
As I said, most of my work experience was not in the corporate world so I don't think I have much to contribute to this discussion. Since you do have experience and knowledge, it makes sense for you to share it..experience and knowledge of corporate life, how the business world functions. I don't know these things or anything about them.
"IN MY WORDS Please describe the ‘inner work’ you have done and its fruits. I would be interested. What is your ‘clear understanding’. I am certain many would be uplifted to know."
I can't imagine discussing this in the current atmosphere, frankly and, as I said, I apologize for my part in creating that atmosphere. Perhaps I am overly mistrustful but, frankly, this does not sound like a genuine invitation to open discussion. I think you and I are speaking different languages and I don't want to sidetrack the important discussion Seek-Her started.
let's just agree to disagree and, "move on"... how's that.
peace,
s.
Gosh S,
Sorry but, no, I do require accountability. You require it, but who knows how. I require it because of what you wrote. Academia requires it, corporate America requires it, and so do I. You asked me to delineate the things you wrote compared to what I wrote. I did this painstakingly. Then you sort of side stepped and said…”well, let’s agree to disagree”. Nope. Sorry , answer the questions; I did. Imagine all of this because I found some aspects of SY that work for me.
Best and respectful regards,
Owning My Own
Oh, Older but Wiser I think you said it best on another thread: everyone back into their corners!
First, let me say that I value all contributions here. I was pretty hard on S and OBW because you guys are what I consider old hands at this and knew you could take some tough love. My sincere apologies for saying you were stuck in a negative feedback loop--both of you have demonstrated real compassion and understanding and growth and shared that with all of us--you don't deserve that. The point I was trying to make is that there are different conversations we can have as a community of people who have undergone the same seminal experiences. Not all of these conversations have to reference all aspects of that experience. So, in a discussion about how best to take our seva experience and make it relevant in today's job market, we can allow ourselves to imagine a wholly positive narrative about that experience. That is what employers want to hear; what did you do, how did you do it well and how would you apply what you learned to the job you are applying for. End of story.
That does not mean we now believe in that narrative to the exclusion of all others, it does not mean stop feeling conflicted about our experience, or that we ignore the negative aspects of it, or that we refuse to look back in anger at how we were used or how we used others. These are psychological and spiritual wounds that we must continue to confront in order to heal.
These kinds of doubts are most certainly NOT however, on the list of things you share on a job interview. I still think OMO gets it right: focus on your experience in neutral ways and avoid SY jargon. Stay upbeat. If you can remember one episode in your seva history that you feel entirely good about, talk about that. Maybe you remember working together with a room full of people who spoke eight different languages but still managed to communicate because you shared a common goal. Maybe you were asked to accomplish something seemingly impossible but found that you could indeed stretch to make it happen and that effort uncovered previously undiscovered strengths, etc. You don't have to want to EVER repeat those experiences in order to make use of them to show a potential employer what you are made of.
OMO, I wish you had stopped there, and didn't feel the need to go on the attack to defend yourself (especially since I was doing such a good job of it for you.) I don't want to and have not read through the rest of your comments as they seem to be coming from a much less interesting and helpful place than your original contribution.
PS no one has written anything about the other subject of this post, depression following the dissolution of belief in SY and loss of our communal support system. I think I could, but I'm just too tired.
>>"Sorry but, no, I do require accountability. You require it, but who knows how. I require it because of what you wrote. Academia requires it, corporate America requires it, and so do I. You asked me to delineate the things you wrote compared to what I wrote. I did this painstakingly. Then you sort of side stepped and said…”well, let’s agree to disagree”. Nope. Sorry , answer the questions;"<<
Dear OMO and SeekHer,
Again, I apologize for my part in creating the current atmosphere. OMO, if you have a genuine interest in Accountability and how I, personally, held myself accountable for my own involvement in siddha yoga and where that investigation took me eventually, (this process lasted more than 6 years and included contacting people I had introduced to siddha yoga and very deeply examining my own motivations and "sprituality",alot of volunteer work, talking to those who had lied to me while I was a devotee and trying to understand the dynamic, especially from their perspective, exploring the root traditions of siddha yoga, helped by a family of Shaivite priests and, eventually, making some kind of sense of the whole experience ), you could go to ex-syda and read the files there. If you have a genuine interest, I will give you my screen name . I would also be willing to speak to you privately about this. It was quite a long and painful journey for me. Sometimes it's difficult to judge tone in an online forum . I did not "side step" the questions, I just feel that this is getting way too personal. I don't think I asked you to "deliniate what I wrote compared to what you wrote"; I think that's something you did on your own . "Let's agree to disagree" is not a way of avoiding direct questions in this instance, it's a way of diverting personal attack and creating some breathing space, allowing the discussion to get back on track.
So if you have a real interest in my post-syda process, please let me know. I am more than willing to share it with you or anyone else. I don't see it as something to argue about. I have nothing to hide and nothing I am particularly holding onto.
s.
SeekHer said:
"Not all of these conversations have to reference all aspects of that experience. So, in a discussion about how best to take our seva experience and make it relevant in today's job market, we can allow ourselves to imagine a wholly positive narrative about that experience. That is what employers want to hear; what did you do, how did you do it well and how would you apply what you learned to the job you are applying for. End of story."
Good point. In administrative seva, people showed competence in managing large teams of people under stressful time constraints. We put on large events, managed crowds, taught communication and speaking skills, were art directors under deadlines, cooks managing kitchens where thousands of meals a day were prepared. Many many skills.
I know a couple of people who got jobs in event coordination for a hotel and a convention center after leaving the ashram. Their sevas translated directly into the kind of experience needed. But there is a complication. They could use the foundation as a reference because they were (are) still innies. Those of us who left and who are known to have left find that a little tricky. We actually don't want to use the foundation as a reference, and it's very doubtful we could. For me that just led to talking about generic "volunteer work" in the various areas I worked in. Employers often don't give that the weight that "real job" experience gets. People who were cut loose from the ashram during the big downsizing before they closed SMA got some career counseling, and coaching in how to couch their seva experience on a resumé. But there are a lot more who left the org as well as the ashram. Personally, I wouldn't want SY on my resumé. I think there are probably a lot of people like me in that regard. So that makes what you describe somewhat tricky.
Older but wiser
And now for something completely different...
I'll address the other question you raised, SeekHer, about depression. In the people I know who've left, it was pretty much universal. Leaving SY was like getting a divorce. Even knowing it was the right thing to do, I also knew I was losing a network of friends, and losing a sense of certainty about what was true, losing an identity. Losing a refuge. Flying blind. So there was a lot of sadness and also a lot of fear. (But even at the beginning, a little bit of exhilaration because flying blind was also flying free.)
Psychologists speak of depression as anger turned inward, unexpressed, unexplored. I was depressed before I finally made the move to leave. Afterward, along with the sadness and fear, there was anger. It had been repressed for a long time in SY. Expressing it was liberating. Making jokes about SY and the gurus was liberating.
I still miss some of the people from that time, but the way I see it now, that's just life. Conditions change, situations change. I developed relationships with people in the "ex" community, and deepened relationships with other people in my life. Moved on. I always had friends outside SY, which was a big help. I didn't have to start over building a community.
It seems completely natural to me that we get depressed when we lose our community and our belief system. It would be unnatural not to. We need community. But also, I think it's really useful to look at what we were depending on that community for, what we were depending on SY for? The depression can be the beginning of waking up, I think. Maybe this isn't really pertinent, but for me the whole constellation of feelings and thoughts around leaving SY was a catalyst for a lot of growth. The depression was part of that. I know for some it can be crippling and don't mean to make light of it, but I think depression related to events (as opposed to brain chemistry) is often a sign of a deeply held core belief about self that is being challenged. Looking at it until the belief is exposed can be liberating. Difficult, but work that needs to be done if we want to be whole and free. Therapy helps, with the right person.
Just my personal hit, not claiming "truth" or anything.
Older but wiser
PS--getting that "too many characters" message from Google, and now it seems to be true, big comment won't post.
OBW wrote: "But also, I think it's really useful to look at what we were depending on that community for, what we were depending on SY for? The depression can be the beginning of waking up, I think."
Great self inquiry question! I think one of my strongest needs and desires back then was to escape pain and anxiety of the world by giving myself a whole structure of something (SY, in my case) that promised a certainty in an uncertain world. Siddha Yoga is like another dream I have awakened from. There is no certainty in life and all our life's outcomes; no promises, no entitlements, no guarantees, and since I was already facing so much adversity, depression and anxiety, feeling spiritually lost, before learning about Baba, SY was like going to heaven for me. I was transported to a place for years and years where I felt extremely joyful. At the time, I needed and welcomed the change. But, afterawhile, all my problems came back, and they came back ten fold--depression, illnesses, chronic pain, inability to hold down full-time jobs for a long period of time. Fortunately, I have come a long ways since leaving SY due to my own gumption and determination and the loving support of some friends and family members.
By the way, Obw, thank you for making the distinction between depression based on events and depression based on brain chemistry. The latter (where there is chronic chemical based dysfuntion) is not something to mess around with. I drove myself nuts for awhile thinking I had to figure out what was causing my serious condition. In some cases, blaming myself for it and creating layers of unnecessary self torture. Finally, I got the correct medical intervention and began to function like a human being. Only then, could I feel well enough to move on and begin rebuilding my life.
Regards,
artsquiggle
artsquiggle
your last comment, very helpful. most excellent. thx.
Glad to share anything that may be helpful in any way. I wanted to add one more very important reason for my immersion in SY. I was a seeker. While I was looking for liberation from my pain, I was equally looking for grand PURPOSE, and a sense of belonging to a shared purpose. I had no consistant vision or plan for my life and felt an almost unbearable void where any sense of purpose was concerned. I just felt very deeply that I wanted the love of God, wanting to please God, serve God. Really, it had little to do with true self inquiry and enlightenment, even if I took course after course and intensive on those topics.
Well, today's a big day across the U.S. Happy voting to those who like to participate in that. I find some practical purpose in it, so I do it with interest & research. (never bothered to vote during my SY years as I erroneously attributed that to "Maya". LOL!)
Regards,
artsquiggle.
Feel close to the same way about the purpose thing artsquiggle. thank you for articulating it. I tried to find clues in the Myers Briggs. Lots of people use it to help in finding their niche. Also so self inquiry.
As S mentioned back in this thread somewhere I think, if the sy experience ultimately gains us exponential self knowledge in the end, that could be a plus. even if we lost time and security.
expereince both sides of this, the regretting and condemning and finding value. hard to let them both coexist sometimes. takes time. can't be faked that kind of acceptance of what is. not a pollyanna thinking either.
Anon wrote:"expereince both sides of this, the regretting and condemning and finding value. hard to let them both coexist sometimes. takes time. can't be faked that kind of acceptance of what is. not a pollyanna thinking either."
How beautiful...the way you write about your journey. Strikes me as your earnestness in deep self inquiry and continuing on in integration of dark and light. Being with our positive and negative feelings. Both, or all can inform us and bring us to a much more accurate understanding of ourselves. At least, that's been my costly experience.
Myers Briggs! Thank you! I had to Google this because I had forgotten that I too looked into this extensive personality type study. (another joy of aging--the memory is going a bit.) I remember finding a lot of solace in it too. Before I made my career change, I spent probably 3 - 4 years with career centers, career counselors, career and life coaches, and the other spectrum of astrologers, enneagrams, etc. I now look back and congratulate myself for never giving up.
I was not one of those persons who was born with an obvious destiny, vocation, inheritance (except with bad DNA! LOL!) or mission in life. Instead, my struggle involves complete liberty to carve my own purpose in life. No easy task when I felt I didn't have a full deck to begin with. But, how wonderful to even speculate...
Warmly,
artsquiggle
Older but Wiser:
thank you for your most recent comments. Your advice that employers don't care whether your seva experience was on-staff versus volunteer work is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping would come out of this discussion. Like you, many if not most of the people reading here would not want SYDA on their resume if it meant providing contact information for references. The innie v. outtie aspect is especially crucial here. My experience in secular jobs has been that HR will usually only confirm starting and ending dates of employment, and refuse to say anything else because if they go negative the company could be sued by the individual involved. I'm not at all sure SYDA is professional enough to operate under such self-imposed restrictions when it comes to avowed or known "outties" and I don't think it is wise to risk any potential retribution they may dole out. I agree, as you indicate, that if you can provide enough details to make it clear your "seva" experience was ongoing and required real responsibilities, you can talk your way around needing a reference. Also, if you're lucky enough to have stayed friends with people you used to know in SY, they might be potential references as well, whether or not they are still on the inside.
In these kind of instances, it is fair to say to employers who might want an inside reference that the ashram has undergone severe downsizing in recent years and no one you worked with is in a position to give a reference. Many people coming from "real-world" jobs could say the same thing if they have left companies that folded or were cut way back.
Confidential to "s":
I want to thank you for a comment you recently wrote which rings very true to me in light of recent personal developments. You said"
"I personally would not want to work in an office or teaching situation (both of which I have experienced)when there is a basic ethical problem that is not being addressed."
I recently considered applying for a job at the "Best Friends" no-kill animal sanctuary in Utah, but when I did a little research I learned that the founders of the shelter are the same people who founded the Process Church of the Final Judgment cult in the 1970's. The shelter was even incorporated as an off-shoot of the cult was it was set up with the IRS. In recent interviews these founders downplay every aspect of the former cults teachings and practices as "youthful enthusiasm" or naievete.
These are the same people who started out by establishing the Church of Scientology in England, before decamping to the US to get a cut of the lucrative American market by setting up their own outfit. Their 'religious' philosophy which equated Christ with Satan was also stolen and used to spectacularly destructive ends by Charlie Manson--who named his group "the family" after the first order of initiation in the Process Church hierarchy.
Needless to say, I'm no longer applying for work at "Best Friends". They may have gone on to do great things for animals, but I can't imagine what late night conversations must be like out in the Utah desert with no one but that bunch of lunatics to talk with.
Sorry, I am not sure who wrote this, but I just wanted to comment:
"These are the same people who started out by establishing the Church of Scientology in England, before decamping to the US to get a cut of the lucrative American market by setting up their own outfit. Their 'religious' philosophy which equated Christ with Satan was also stolen and used to spectacularly destructive ends by Charlie Manson--who named his group "the family" after the first order of initiation in the Process Church hierarchy."
I applaud you for not taking this at face value, researching and uncovering information which gives you much more to consider. It seems that many of us who graduated from SY now like to dig our heels into research and investigation before making a leap into a committment. I like to consider this the field work of self inquiry.
This is a good thing. On the other hand, I am finding, even with investigation, research, or interviewing the interviewer, as in job scenarios, it is unlikely, I will find myself in any arena that is without some degree of scandals, lack of ethics, wrongdoings. Seems to be the age we live in.
Therefore, unless you can create your own business, be ready with a job you feel pretty OK with, that you may ultimately stand alone in deciding what you bring to this job; how you will take the high road, despite what ills you may uncover along the way. I can't think of a single job I have had, over my life span, that didn't have some kind of malfeasance show up at some point. When this sh-- hit the fan, I found myself at another crossroads of soul searching.
Regards,
artsquiggle
"I can't think of a single job (seva) I have had, over my life's (sadhana) span , that didn't have some kind of malfeasance show up at some point. When this sh-- hit the fan, I found myself at another crossroads of soul searching."
artsquiggle
November 4, 2010 1:04 AM
Life and my SY experience in a nutshell. So messy. It's one think to get dirty doing things that matter, it feels really crummy to have spent so much time glorifying the ego of the guru.
Some of us seem to find this kind of 'malfeseance' I did. I expected people to really work the mission statement. Naive! Me too, should have started my own business. then I would have to figure out how to motivate. Round and round.
SY I thought was providing a prayer life, contemplative life along side work. That is what attracted me. I thought it was a monastery. But was more like OZ.
>>"that you may ultimately stand alone in deciding what you bring to this job; how you will take the high road, despite what ills you may uncover along the way. I can't think of a single job I have had, over my life span, that didn't have some kind of malfeasance show up at some point. When this sh-- hit the fan, I found myself at another crossroads of soul searching."<<
Dear ArtSquiggle,
thanks for this. It's a brilliant description of how we could approach pretty much any and all aspects of life.
s.
Again, not sure who wrote this, but it caught my eye:
"Life and my SY experience in a nutshell. So messy. It's one think to get dirty doing things that matter, it feels really crummy to have spent so much time glorifying the ego of the guru."
At the time of your SY immersion, did you at least feel joy and good about your participation witin that community? I don't know how recent your break away is. Mine has been almost a decade now, so I have had quite a few years to shape some hindsight. And it's still in shaping process...
What has helped me the most, is coming to terms with simply forgiving myself. I mean, I work at it. I don't think I had much perspective on what "forgiveness" meant, until I began to feel really unsatisfied and angry with SY. I was raised a Catholic as a kid, and then to go over to SY, I still fell hook, line and sinker for the aphorism that "forgiveness" is ALL about forgiving others for their harmful, violent, and selfish acts. NOT! I find much more wisdom in the focus of forgiving myself for any choices or lack of choices I made which invited the ignorant, the blind, or plain A-holes and jerks to hurt me.
Love this quote by the shaman, Don Miguel Ruiz, in his book entitled: The Mastery of Love:
"You must forgve those who hurt you, even if whatever they did to you is unforgivable in your mind. You will forgive them NOT because they deserve to be forgiven, but because YOU don't want to suffer and hurt YOURSELF every time you remember what they did to you."
In no way, do I sense this author was saying to drop investigation into malfeasance. That part is also my human and civil duty to do. But, it sure lightens the load when I can just stop allowing the wrongdoing to make me feel sick and weak. This is something I am challenged with day after day in a world full of injustice and room for regret. To remember that I don't deserve anymore undue suffering. It doesn't help myself or any good cause.
Regards,
artsquiggle
From 81’ to 83’ I was living shram life in GSP and SF, and reentering the real world applied these two tactics to fill the daunting void of a demonstrating a gainful employment history. One, I visited my previous employer who thought I’d been cult snatched from my desk by Moonie equivalents. He was actually relieved to see me moving about freely beyond the gates of a shram and openly exhibiting the ability to focus both eyes in the same direction at the same time. After a bit of catching up I explained my dilemma and asked if he’d cover some of those missing years for me, to which he agreed, even though I had no interest in returning to the same line of work. Two, application-wise, Siddha Yoga was referred to as “The SYDA Foundation”, which to the uninformed holds no negative connotation and actually sounds rather formidable. I believe I described SYDA in terms of a non-profit encouraging an exchange of theological history between Eastern and Western countries. I don’t recall anyone flinching at that description, nor was I pressed to give more.
Of course, back then I was an innie, and even after shaving time spent in shrams down to manageable size there was still someone in the seva office that would politely cover for me. Those were friendlier times and after all, the unemployed make for poor donors.
Hope that’s useful.
MBG
What Don Miguel Ruiz said reminds me a little of something Jack Kornfield has said: "Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past."
And that really goes for self-forgiveness. At some point (if we want to heal) we have to let go of all the second-guessing about the past. Everyone makes mistakes. When I look back, I can see the constellation of circumstances in my life, my level of maturity, my emotional state, my desire to go for the highest--and I think "of course I did what I did. If I'd known better, I would have done it differently." That goes for lots of things--relationships, raising kids, jobs, SY. Unless we're psychopaths, we are usually doing the best we can in the circumstances we find ourselves in. We might need to make amends, and feeling remorse leads to a bit more wisdom next time around, but forgiving ourselves (and others) is a gesture of kindness that can really help free us, I believe.
Of course, we can't do it until we can do it. It has to come from inside.
OBW (might as well just go with the acronym)
"Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past."
Nice read on a Sunday am with an extra hour. Works at the problem in many ways for me. Allows for letting go, allows me to stop visualizing, replaying the past, remembering the hurts. Doesn't try to correct. Giving up hope allows reality, respects reality. Helps self-acceptance. Stoic. No promises of phony joy and happiness and the Siddha Yoga bliss and horse-hockey 'life on earth a paradise'.
Everyone is doing the best they can.....? Perhaps, I try this phrase but the facts just never seem to demonstrate it to me. In the end is is just simply not my call. Tired of judging Chidvilas, burned almost every trace. But still there is that lingering question that started this blog:
"Where in Hell is Gurumayi?"
Don't really care, happy to leave that to the Dante types.
What remains troubling is Siddha Yoga recruitment of young people. I can't think of a single piece of Siddha Yoga Philosophy and Culture that a young person could get value from in planning their life.
That is the worst fault in what they were shilling; that the Siddha Yoga teachings could be used as a guide to life. They seem so on the surface, but when you finally have your wits back you can see they are just a hermentically sealed tautology, that goes round and round with no connection to real life.
Thanks OBW for the contemplation.
To Anon at 8:14--I have trouble with the idea that everyone is doing the best they can, too. It's hard to swallow. It requires faith (on my part) that what prevents people from being "good" is delusion, ignorance, some obscuration of truth that results from their history, their conditioning, the coping mechanisms they have developed to get through life. A lot of the time I don't feel that faith myself, even though I intellectually believe that given the right conditions (both outer AND inner), people will act more skillfully. What helps me get to that faith I think is looking at my own life and owning up to having done things that were really hurtful to others, and being able to see, if only vaguely at times, the tangle of causes for the way I acted. I learned to be the way I was then, and I have learned to be different, am learning all the time. Nothing is fixed. Mine is a Buddhist take. Causes and conditions.
There's a connection to forgiveness in there. No hope of a better past.
And none of that equals absolution--I believe people need to acknowledge where they screwed up and make amends. Otherwise we are very unlikely to change, to invite in the conditions that lead to change.
Is SY still trying to attract young people? The only people I know of still "in" SY are those who were in it before 2000 or so. But I am way out of touch with active ashrams and centers. Maybe I'm deluded but my sense is that young people now are a lot more savvy than I was in the early 80s.
OBW
OBW wrote:
"I believe people need to acknowledge where they screwed up and make amends. Otherwise we are very unlikely to change, to invite in the conditions that lead to change."
I really like the conversation thread around forgiveness and especially this comment. Oh, I so agree with you, OBW, that people do indeed need to acknowledge their mistakes, or where they went unhappy, to then have enough foresight to make amends with their own messes. Then, there is true feeling in self forgiveness.
I keep discovering in ongoing and new ways, that to forgive myself deeply, is an undeniable, visceral and imperfect journey requiring I become an activist in the passive and unloved areas of my life.
For example, for many years, even before SY, I was unhappy with my choice of career. No matter what I did, I didn't seem to feel fully aligned with it. Finally, I got so fed up with the boiling discontent beneath my skin, that I made a major career change from graphics & the publishing world to education with young children or Early Childhood Education. This change was in response to my own many areas of pain and dysfunction which has somewhat healed due to the new undertanding of early human development I have learned through this later endeavor. Note: I don't think anything to do with GM's earlier claims of attention needing to go "to the children." (The fact that the ball has been dropped around this arena in SY, after such a pledge disgusts me.)
Though I don't consider this career change an "all-embracing change", it has been a major positive step in my life that has helped me feel better and forgive myself for past choices/non-choices while also helping me to heal and see the parts of my personality/mental apptitude that are never satisfied no matter what I do or what great lengths I go to in order to effect change in my life. And I mean, the kind of change that I have done exhausting soul searching on so that I know I'm not just in a process of rearranging furniture.
At this point of my crossroads, I can say, I am discovering that I need to stop blaming myself (forgiving myself) that my place in the world has never been obvious, nor easy to blend my natural talents with making a living. That pain alone was so great, it became an impetus that drove me deeper into SY. I felt I was a complete outcast in this world until I met up with SY, and especially, once I went on staff.
After leaving SY, I realized, I had resisting a call for a creative challenge to put my own unique self to work in this world. To not give up on this (minus a guru) requires a great deal; material for another discussion.
Regards,
artsquiggle
"At this point of my crossroads, I can say, I am discovering that I need to stop blaming myself ...that my place in the world has never been obvious, nor easy to blend my natural talents with making a living. That pain alone was so great, it became an impetus that drove me deeper into SY. ...After leaving SY, I realized, I was resisting a call...to put my own unique self to work in this world. To not give up on this (minus a guru) requires a great deal..."
I can certainly empathize with this, artsquiggle, as I imagine a lot of people who came to SY can. "Normal" people who are completely content with their place in the mundane world don't often go in search of spiritual fulfillment, certainly not so far as South Fallsburg NY. Siddha Yoga and Guru bhakti co-opted much of the dissatisfaction we seekers felt and channeled it to exclusively "spiritual" ends and thus undercut any impetus we had to change our outer circumstances earlier. Certainly, Siddha Yoga taught that any dissatisfaction or frustration we felt in our quotidian lives was to be seen as karma being burned off by the Guru's grace. Viewed this way, SY was (and still is for many) parasitical.
This is why I also brought up the subject of depression in this post. I think all these things go hand in hand. When we leave SY we leave behind that part of us which was willing to turn a blind eye to our actual, day to day, outer circumstances in favor of fostering identification with some unreal inner ideal (i.e. the Guru). When we wake up, and those of us here have, we realize that our outer circumstances---careers, husbands and wives and lovers, families, homes, bank accounts, etc---have been long neglected. Our own relationships with ourselves have been long neglected. This can and does cause a lot of depression---particularly since we are now shut off from the soothing palliative of SY practices. But it is a good depression to have because it means we are now seeing the world clearly for the first time in years.
Dear SeekHer,
I appreciate your empathy, insight into all this. You are a wonderful writer too. This blog has brought me solace--to be able to connect again with other former SY members, read the different thoughts and express my own. Very helpful.
I also agree that one can use depression in an empowering way. Still, to be aware that there are levels and different types of depression. Chemical dysfuntion in the brain cannot always be reconciled with by introspection, self inquiry, coming to grips with reality, etc. All these things are still necessary for healing and growing. But, in my case, which I referenced in a former post, I had to seek medical intervention before I could do much else to help myself as the chemical imbalance seems to have been deeply rooted in my DNA.
Regards,
artsquiggle
You know, you can build your own relationship to the Shakti, absolutely independent of the fogbank of Syda. That was the whole point anyway right? it just got a little co-opted, lol...I've been doing that for the last 4 years since I left and have no sense of being 'alone.' Just feeling like all my devotion is going directly to the God of my own heart instead of a fantasy mommy/lover illusion. The sense of safety actually grows every day.
Dreams: once greeted with honeyed reviews in a devoted bowl of bhakti, the yoga/ashram/guru flicks now painting the inner walls of “deaths second self” are met with less enthusiastic, more guttural accompaniments, things like “argh, ugh, phiszzz,” and so forth. Less articulate, yes, but as unwelcome visitors in the night the gruffness that follows the dreams’ departure suits them.
Four plus years out, and Muk et al. are still roaming around up there on a too familiar basis. Okay, the old love bombing has been usurped by conflict - sometimes with guru(s), sometimes with staff - and foot diving, still a regular feature, belongs to others as I stand awkwardly by hoping to find a posture that’s neutral at best and no more. Namaste is not an option. (BTW, in today’s picture show Muk was walking with his successor, a young, tall Caucasian guy who I didn’t recognize. GM it seemed was a willful renegade. The SF ashram was stamping scan-able bio-ID plates into the backs of people’s necks. And eventually, management discovered I was a persona non grata and the jig was up, as I was greeted by my, ahem, ashram escorts. You know - the usual.)
Depressing… mildly so. I mean it’s not a huge deal, but you’d think that after several years the dreams would peter out – but Nooo. Apparently, getting out is harder on the psyche than getting in.
MBG
Found at another site fighting a cult. http://mortentolboll.weebly.com/a-critique-of-nlp-and-large-group-awareness-training-lgat.html
To MBG:
No surprise to me that the effects/affects are enduring, long term. PTSD lasts and the older you get the more vulnerable to it. Goes into remission and then re-appears.
Still for me I try to see it as an opportunity to triumph over stupid vain creatures like our former guru and their cold-blooded short sighted utterly self-serving view of the world.
The techniques used in Siddha Yoga are re-deployed in countless ways in our world. Having exited Siddha Yoga I feel grateful for the knowledge of how easily duped I can be, but begrudge the organization a tragic loss (in my eyes) of innocent faith. That treachery assigns them one of the lowest circles of Hell I believe.
Liked this link at first glance, on LGAT, which is what really took us in in Siddha Yoga. A technique used by the unscrupulous.
http://mortentolboll.weebly.com/a-critique-of-nlp-and-large-group-awareness-training-lgat.html
Hallo everyone. Browsing through the comments I see things got a little hot in here for a while. I just wanted to chime in on the topics of Seekher's original post, even though it's a little late.
I'm not ex-Syda but I was in a different yoga group for about ten years before "screwing my courage to the sticking post" and getting back into the real world.
I was pretty lucky in that I had a low-paying but regular job within the organization. I was able to really down-play the whole mystical side of things on my resume. I described myself as an 'administrative assistant', which is kind of a catch-all for the endless round of petty errands I used to run. I even cited a little 'teaching' experience from some of the lower level classes I had tried to teach (all the while sweating with fear that I would do it wrong and get raked over the coals by our group leader ... sound familiar?)
It worked for me and I transitioned into a job as a in the education field. I'm back in school now getting my teaching certificate. The trick was telling myself that the skills I had learned in my group would transfer into any job. It was true.
I still struggle with authority figures. I tend to get super-nervous around people in power and start worrying that I'm going to say or do something horribly wrong. I've also noticed that I tend to think that innocent things I say might be taken out of context and used against me as they used to be in the group. I work hard forgiving myself for the silly things I sometimes say because of my nerves. I try to be positive and professional at all times. I hope the quality of my work will speak for itself. (Ha. Spoken like a true devotee, right?)
I hope that one day I can say that I "learned to lead with enthusiasm, joy" in my chosen field as OMO does. I hope you all do. Thanks for letting me comment here.
I wanted to come back here and add something about depression. I hope you guys don’t mind me chiming in. I relate so much to the things all of you have written about ... for example the sense that my talents didn't translate easily into the work world when I was young. (Or I didn't know how to translate them into that arena). I was looking for meaningful work and I really couldn't cope with the reality of politics and paperwork that often went along even in the most humanitarian of organizations.
Part of forgiving for me has been accepting that the group I was in served a purpose for me at the time. I found meaning in abundance! In fact I’d never been able to stick a job much longer than six-eight months before the cult. I do think that I may have been mildly depressed before I entered the group. The excitement of finding the ‘teachings’ and being embraced by the group was a high that overcame and covered my depression for about mmm … about three to five years. I started getting depressed again when the dust settled and my fabulous ‘spiritual’ life had become an endless round of chores and errands. The lack of autonomy and ability to fulfill my personal and artistic goals caught up with me and I was pretty heavily depressed until I was finally able to leave.
Now that I’m past the thrill (and fear) of freedom, depression still lurks at the edges of my consciousness a lot as I try to rebuild my life. I also struggle with the sense of lost time, lost youth, lost freedom and the feeling that I’m running myself ragged playing ‘catch-up’ in the ‘real’ world. I’ve been in counseling for about a year (although the counselor doesn’t understand much about the whole cult thing, she helps the best she can). I’ve been thinking lately about conscious strategies to nip that depression in the bud when it starts coming on. For example, I love to bake and that lifts my spirits when I’m down. I play with my daughter. I’ve been doing regular hatha yoga. Sometimes I wonder if joining some kind of regular church might be a good idea, as long as they don’t force too much religion on me! Lol. So underlying derpression has been a factor for me for sure. It's good to recognize and look for good strategies to cope and come to terms with everything. I'm still seeking integration/wholeness after all this time :)
I wanted to come back here and add something about depression. I hope you guys don’t mind me chiming in. I relate so much to the things all of you have written about ... for example the sense that my talents didn't translate easily into the work world when I was young. (Or I didn't know how to translate them into that arena). I was looking for meaningful work and I really couldn't cope with the reality of politics and paperwork that often went along even in the most humanitarian of organizations.
Part of forgiving for me has been accepting that the group I was in served a purpose for me at the time. I found meaning in abundance! In fact I’d never been able to stick a job much longer than six-eight months before the cult. I do think that I may have been mildly depressed before I entered the group. The excitement of finding the ‘teachings’ and being embraced by the group was a high that overcame and covered my depression for about mmm … about three to five years. I started getting depressed again when the dust settled and my fabulous ‘spiritual’ life had become an endless round of chores and errands. The lack of autonomy and ability to fulfill my personal and artistic goals caught up with me and I was pretty heavily depressed until I was finally able to leave.
Now that I’m past the thrill (and fear) of freedom, depression still lurks at the edges of my consciousness a lot as I try to rebuild my life. I also struggle with the sense of lost time, lost youth, lost freedom and the feeling that I’m running myself ragged playing ‘catch-up’ in the ‘real’ world. I’ve been in counseling for about a year (although the counselor doesn’t understand much about the whole cult thing, she helps the best she can). I’ve been thinking lately about conscious strategies to nip that depression in the bud when it starts coming on. For example, I love to bake and that lifts my spirits when I’m down. I play with my daughter. I’ve been doing regular hatha yoga. Sometimes I wonder if joining some kind of regular church might be a good idea, as long as they don’t force too much religion on me! Lol. So underlying derpression has been a factor for me for sure. It's good to recognize and look for good strategies to cope and come to terms with everything. I'm still seeking integration/wholeness after all this time :)
I wanted to come back here and add something about depression. I hope you guys don’t mind me chiming in. I relate so much to the things all of you have written about ... for example the sense that my talents didn't translate easily into the work world when I was young. (Or I didn't know how to translate them into that arena). I was looking for meaningful work and I really couldn't cope with the reality of politics and paperwork that often went along even in the most humanitarian of organizations.
Part of forgiving for me has been accepting that the group I was in served a purpose for me at the time. I found meaning in abundance! In fact I’d never been able to stick a job much longer than six-eight months before the cult. I do think that I may have been mildly depressed before I entered the group. The excitement of finding the ‘teachings’ and being embraced by the group was a high that overcame and covered my depression for about mmm … about three to five years. I started getting depressed again when the dust settled and my fabulous ‘spiritual’ life had become an endless round of chores and errands. The lack of autonomy and ability to fulfill my personal and artistic goals caught up with me and I was pretty heavily depressed until I was finally able to leave.
Now that I’m past the thrill (and fear) of freedom, depression still lurks at the edges of my consciousness a lot as I try to rebuild my life. I also struggle with the sense of lost time, lost youth, lost freedom and the feeling that I’m running myself ragged playing ‘catch-up’ in the ‘real’ world. I’ve been in counseling for about a year (although the counselor doesn’t understand much about the whole cult thing, she helps the best she can). I’ve been thinking lately about conscious strategies to nip that depression in the bud when it starts coming on. For example, I love to bake and that lifts my spirits when I’m down. I play with my daughter. I’ve been doing regular hatha yoga. Sometimes I wonder if joining some kind of regular church might be a good idea, as long as they don’t force too much religion on me! Lol. So underlying derpression has been a factor for me for sure. It's good to recognize and look for good strategies to cope and come to terms with everything. I'm still seeking integration/wholeness after all this time :)
I wanted to come back here and add something about depression. I hope you guys don’t mind me chiming in. I relate so much to the things all of you have written about ... for example the sense that my talents didn't translate easily into the work world when I was young. (Or I didn't know how to translate them into that arena). I was looking for meaningful work and I really couldn't cope with the reality of politics and paperwork that often went along even in the most humanitarian of organizations.
Part of forgiving for me has been accepting that the group I was in served a purpose for me at the time. I found meaning in abundance! In fact I’d never been able to stick a job much longer than six-eight months before the cult. I do think that I may have been mildly depressed before I entered the group. The excitement of finding the ‘teachings’ and being embraced by the group was a high that overcame and covered my depression for about mmm … about three to five years. I started getting depressed again when the dust settled and my fabulous ‘spiritual’ life had become an endless round of chores and errands. The lack of autonomy and ability to fulfill my personal and artistic goals caught up with me and I was pretty heavily depressed until I was finally able to leave.
Now that I’m past the thrill (and fear) of freedom, depression still lurks at the edges of my consciousness a lot as I try to rebuild my life. I also struggle with the sense of lost time, lost youth, lost freedom and the feeling that I’m running myself ragged playing ‘catch-up’ in the ‘real’ world. I’ve been in counseling for about a year (although the counselor doesn’t understand much about the whole cult thing, she helps the best she can). I’ve been thinking lately about conscious strategies to nip that depression in the bud when it starts coming on. For example, I love to bake and that lifts my spirits when I’m down. I play with my daughter. I’ve been doing regular hatha yoga. Sometimes I wonder if joining some kind of regular church might be a good idea, as long as they don’t force too much religion on me! Lol. So underlying derpression has been a factor for me for sure. It's good to recognize and look for good strategies to cope and come to terms with everything. I'm still seeking integration/wholeness after all this time :)
I wanted to come back here and add something about depression. I hope you guys don’t mind me chiming in. I relate so much to the things all of you have written about ... for example the sense that my talents didn't translate easily into the work world when I was young. (Or I didn't know how to translate them into that arena). I was looking for meaningful work and I really couldn't cope with the reality of politics and paperwork that often went along even in the most humanitarian of organizations.
Part of forgiving for me has been accepting that the group I was in served a purpose for me at the time. I found meaning in abundance! In fact I’d never been able to stick a job much longer than six-eight months before the cult. I do think that I may have been mildly depressed before I entered the group. The excitement of finding the ‘teachings’ and being embraced by the group was a high that overcame and covered my depression for about mmm … about three to five years. I started getting depressed again when the dust settled and my fabulous ‘spiritual’ life had become an endless round of chores and errands. The lack of autonomy and ability to fulfill my personal and artistic goals caught up with me and I was pretty heavily depressed until I was finally able to leave.
Now that I’m past the thrill (and fear) of freedom, depression still lurks at the edges of my consciousness a lot as I try to rebuild my life. I also struggle with the sense of lost time, lost youth, lost freedom and the feeling that I’m running myself ragged playing ‘catch-up’ in the ‘real’ world. I’ve been in counseling for about a year (although the counselor doesn’t understand much about the whole cult thing, she helps the best she can). I’ve been thinking lately about conscious strategies to nip that depression in the bud when it starts coming on. For example, I love to bake and that lifts my spirits when I’m down. I play with my daughter. I’ve been doing regular hatha yoga. Sometimes I wonder if joining some kind of regular church might be a good idea, as long as they don’t force too much religion on me! Lol. So underlying derpression has been a factor for me for sure. It's good to recognize and look for good strategies to cope and come to terms with everything. I'm still seeking integration/wholeness after all this time :)
Wow, I am so sorry. I only pressed submit once, but it looks like my comment came up about twenty times. Jeez. Please delete, Seekher!
Wow, I just shared with a close family member what I have been going through with this. It re-stirred up a lot of sadness and bitterness. Makes me wonder if I will ever get over it.
Gracie, Cobra, MBG, et al,
What is described here makes me feel less alone. When gathering this week with family, (not easy) will be sending good wishes to you.
Seriously? Another 'Sweet Surprise?'
http://www.siddhayoga.org/a-sweet-surprise
Just checked out the new "Sweet Surprise".
"AUM Sadhana"?
"Yawny Breath"?
All I can say is, SY has really changed from Muk's era.
And I guess I hafta wonder: If they announce it ahead of time, doesn't that sorta preclude it being a surprise?
I recognize the person on the intro satsang tape.
Mr of Mr & Mrs Hogitall. Constant need to be seen and heard. I heard them team up alright by yelling at, berating and judging another slavite.
In addition to:
"AUM Sadhana"?
and
"Yawny Breath"?
I forgot to add one earlier:
"Energy Bath"?
What on EARTH has SY become?
Unbelievable. Are there actually people who will swallow this stuff? I find it very hard to believe.
Absolute delusion. Listened to about one minute of the preparation thingy and almost laughed out loud. Good grief. Was I a part of that? Yawny breath indeed.
There are still people who not only swallow this stuff, but still wait with bated breath to gulp it down.
Most of them are GM old-timers (and even Muk old-timers)...oh, whoops, I forgot to add the Siddha-speak...I mean, "Great Timers" (gag) who are still hanging-on and refuse to face the truth of current reality.
And I suspect this is because they are deeply frightened of facing what it would mean to fully accept how much of their lives and identities built around being SY'ers, has been wasted. My guess is that some simply can't face the deep despair and depression facing this reality would cause them.
And my experience has been, that it absolutely WOULD cause them deep despair and depression.
But it's really the phases of the grief process. In my own experience, after the shock and disbelief of what I had let myself into, I felt deep despair and depression. And then deep anger, even red-hot RAGE, for a very long time. And then some more despair and depression. And then some more anger. But....
But, what they don't realize is, if one pushes through the sadness and anger and can come to grips with recapturing respect for themselves as they originally were, before SY, and for the essence of their personalities and "being" that has not and does not change pre-SY, during SY, and post-SY, they just don't realize that a greater freedom and self-acceptance can be had at the back end of the letting go process.
At least, that was MY experience.
But I still have no earthly idea what "Aum Sadhana", "Yawny Breath", or "Energy Bath" mean!
Anon 3:32 referred to "their lives and identities built around being SY'ers ..."
The only thing I see that is new since this Preparation Satsang was first presented in December 2008 is the introduction. I listened to the first few minutes, and heard the phrase "Siddha Yogi's" 9 times, including 7 sentences in a row --- Siddha Yogi's do this, Siddha Yogi's behave this way, etc. A definite identity was built around being a Siddha Yogi. It suggests that the specified behaviors are required in order to be a Siddha Yogi.
Anon said: "But I still have no earthly idea what "Aum Sadhana", "Yawny Breath", or "Energy Bath" mean!"
That's just as well. I did Aum Sadhana when it was presented in January 2009. Just 15 minutes undid several months of body work, and my teacher told me that Aum Sadhana is not for me.
holy shit that preview webcast was freaky. robotic
as comments said, can't believe was completely submerged in this path.
resurrection may not look like anything previously known yet beginning to believe it will be healthy and real.
thanks seekher for a nice place to gather with syda expats.
November 23, 2010 7:23 AM
Seriously? Another 'Sweet Surprise?' http://www.siddhayoga.org/a-sweet-surprise
***
Yes the surprise is that people still believe there's an Easter Egg in a THREE YEAR OLD "special program" built on the idea of a "special program" the year before when hearing GM speak in person was actually a surprise.
I'm now thinking that the new Siddha Yoga Tradition is to rehash the same talk three years in a row, forget about hosting a talk the next year, then have a talk but only if it seems it's time to resurrect history by thinking back on a story that's been told year after year since 1974.
Yawny breath indeed...
I would be cutting my own wrists by now if I though I was still a "Siddha Yogi"....
TT
Thank you every individual who has written and offered their feelings, perspectives, insights, and pain. This blog has been very helpful to my healing. Yet I am still waiting for the answer to the blog's premise:
Where is Gurumayi?
Seriously. Where is Swami Chidvilasananda? For those here still with active connections to SMA, are there any one-degree of separation confirmed sightings?
I wsih someone with more investigative skills than myself would dig into it. Where is Gururmayi?
Where is Gururmayi?
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As far as I know she's still living somewhere in Livingston County (when she's not anonymously jetting elsewhere), conducting "teaching" events with a very small number of people who have been vetted for service to the Siddha Yoga ashram.
In 1997 at Baba's 50Yr Divya Diksha, Gurumayi said this was what she wanted - to retire from public life and take a VERY SMALL number of students on the SY path with her.
Good for her word that's what she's done - concentrate on the "children" of SY for a short time (in 1998 and 1999) then progressively slip away (2000 and 2001 - announce major changes for the SY Campus in South Fallsburg, 2002 and 2003 - convert summers in SF to "retreat only" attendance. 2004 and 2005 - close the South Fallsburg ashram to all day visitors, close down the Anugraha site and move all ~100-300~ residents into Atma Nidhi), and engage with only as many people as she can personally know.
I think she does Yearly Talk events either when the date calls for the occasion (ie 2008 - Baba 100 yrs old)... but only if she wants to do so.
I suspect there's both an overt and covert reason for the current "Sweet Surprise" (trademark). If you were around for the last 3 Jan 1 events in which case you will really not be at all surprised by this announcement.
I wonder why she has people concentrated on the primordial sound? Is it possible for someone to "attune" the use of this sound to meet a specific (unspoken) end?
Many yrs ago when GM and her followers were worried about the New Yorker article they asked a pod of devotees to meditate and "send Reiki" to stop the publication of the article. I have wondered if GM and Co. have meant to sending "OM" to the people who started blogs unfavorable to SY, and/or those who have openly criticized her.
It's just a thought that passes through my mind.
TT
TT,
Did you mean Livingston county in some other state or Sullivan county, NY where SF 'shram is located?
Also, it begs the question: Why would any true Siddha need to have other people "send Reiki" for her?
Malarkey! I was there when Baba read his agreement incorporating siddha yoga in NY. He said that the guru had to be available to all the devotees.
December 9, 2010 12:24 PM
Anonymous said...
You: TT, Did you mean Livingston county in some other state or Sullivan county, NY where SF 'shram is located?
RE me: I meant Sullivan, don't know why I typed Livingston except that I was doing some research on that area recently. My old brain probably mis-mapped the words and the locations. lol!
You: Also, it begs the question: Why would any true Siddha need to have other people "send Reiki" for her?
RE: me: I'm just the meditating/contemplating messenger here. I'm reporting on something I read in Marta Szabo's book. A bunch of SY devotees once had the "seva" of sitting and sending LD Reiki to Lis Harris so her soon to be published NYer article might not see the light of day.
I was ruminating on the SY idea that supposedly GM can infuse her "sankalpa" will into an event and bring about changes in the lives of her students (or anyone else she may want to influence with her "grace").
I was wondering if there might be a kind of a spell attached to the idea of chanting OM 3 years in a row as a Siddha Yoga study focus.
Thanks for asking and thanks for correcting the mistake.
TT
Honestly if you go and take a look at GMs current picture on the 'sweet surprise' page (syda.org) any jealousy you might feel for those currently 'around' her will vanish. The shakti is gone. You can see it.
Indeed if there indeed was a vibrant being brimming with scintillating shakti (or more likely black magical powers) that person has vanished too.
Now there is just a shell. But plenty of time left for you to claim your own life and your own relationship to the shakti.
Luckily Syda never found a way to copywright and totally co-opt your birthright, your personal connection to the God of your own heart. They tried their damndest but in the end that only belongs to you.
The greatest tragedy would be if I had let my dissapointment with GM and her manipulations keep me from deepening my devotion to the Shakti herself. I just said goodbye to GM and all gurus and dove into the pool of nectar that was there all along.
I tell you. It works.
"Indeed if there indeed was a vibrant being brimming with scintillating shakti (or more likely black magical powers) that person has vanished too."
@December 10, 2010 9:46 PM
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This struck me so I went to bookstore website to look at photos. Could not feel anyting but disgust. It was strange. The photos which were icons of worship for so many years.
Where is she now? Stll farting gold?
I don't think its just that she got sick of the job (and more than that, her personality type would become contemptuous and dismissive of those who fawn all over her). I think she also started to develop wrinkles and age spots as she moved into her menopause (yes, she's human folks - deals with hormones like the rest of the female population) and she just couldn't cope with a slow dissolution of her "perfect" image in public. How recent are the most recent photos anyway??
I don't think its just that she got sick of the job (and more than that, her personality type would become contemptuous and dismissive of those who fawn all over her). I think she also started to develop wrinkles and age spots as she moved into her menopause (yes, she's human folks - deals with hormones like the rest of the female population) and she just couldn't cope with a slow dissolution of her "perfect" image in public. How recent are the most recent photos anyway??
I don't think its just that she got sick of the job (and more than that, her personality type would become contemptuous and dismissive of those who fawn all over her). I think she also started to develop wrinkles and age spots as she moved into her menopause (yes, she's human folks - deals with hormones like the rest of the female population) and she just couldn't cope with a slow dissolution of her "perfect" image in public. How recent are the most recent photos anyway??
I'm sorry, I hit the "publish" button once only. Seems to be a problem here.
"she just couldn't cope with a slow dissolution of her "perfect" image in public. How recent are the most recent photos anyway??"
December 17, 2010 12:45 AM
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This is the plight of many beauties. Especially those who have resorted to plastic surgery as we know GM did. Sheds light on how much it was all about her dazzling looks. She was stunning, now not.
There were newer photos for awhile for sale, those now are gone, as you said, mostly photos from the 1990's. The newer photos showed a not very sweet at all face.
It's funny, there are aging women I know who it is still a joy to gaze at, all coming from the love shining out from their faces. You don't notice the sags, age spots.
I believe your analysis @12;45 is on target and therefore shows that it was all vanity for her in the end and not about love.
I do hope now that she has vacated the throne, she finds some kind of normal existence. What a tragic life; exposed by her parents to a pedofile, exploited by a psychopathic assistant.
With no other guidance, her life now amounts to nothing but self indulgence after all that effort and money spent.
I've been thinking about the whole 'black magic' charge, as if that were sufficient to write the whole 'Shakti' thing off as BS. But isn't 'black magic' basically Shakti narrowed to selfish purposes? I'm not saying this to justify it — it is evil use of power. But might not our very reference to 'black magic' actually be a validation of the reality of Shakti — which is there, if we can get beyond the agenda of our manipulative egos?
I'm no longer a big fan and shakti or no shakti, but GM looks damn good for her age. Just sayin'!
To Anon at 6:34 12/17--
My current feeling about shakti is that it's energy, plain and simple. It's not benevolent, it's not evil--it doesn't partake of morality at all. Those who "use" it, however, do, and that's the rub.
OBW
"I'm no longer a big fan and shakti or no shakti, but GM looks damn good for her age. Just sayin'!"
Genetics and reasonably clean living aside (clean by Western standards - yogic, meat and probably alcohol free, etc) you'd look pretty good too honey if you had legions of people looking after your every whim, all the health services you could possibly want, your own private gym and swimming pool and gazoodles of money. Not to mention plastic surgery.
That would probably relax a few wrinkles.
Best wishes to all for for Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, winter solstice, Saturnalia or whatever your festive winter celebration may be.
Let's not forget Festivus!
Not talking about whether she looks 'good' or not in the hollywood conventional-dazzle way. Or whether she had surgery. If you look in the eyes of the most recent photo, you can see that the shakti is gone. The energy that once could transport you into bliss and inner silence is gone. That is what matters.
And if you see this (as was obvious to me when I looked) it is so easy to break any remaining chains. You can cut loose any tendrils of regret or attachment to an illusive past and sail into your own bright destiny once and for all.
" If you look in the eyes of the most recent photo, you can see that the shakti is gone. The energy that once could transport you into bliss and inner silence is gone."
Not even the most recent photos.
It's been gone for a number of years.
Even around the most glowing individuals I never "saw" the shakti in one's eyes. I think the whole "The shakti does this or that" is not valid. In photos from sadhus or other saints I do not "see" the shakti. The shakti is EVERYTHING. From the lint on your clothes, a broom, the atoms, the cosmos, that car. What is this see the shakti? Don't buy it. And to pick the guru apart for her looks is very superficial. I'm pissed at how she treated people by kicking them out without a pension, was nasty, cut out photos of her brother, and how the sevites treated other people with arrogant distain. Who cares about her looks or plastic surgery. That's High School..and mean.
interesting observations...but just because you're not able to perceive a certain vibration doesn't mean it doesn't exist..
"And to pick the guru apart for her looks is very superficial."
Certainly is. But the whole yoga had become supremely superficial over the years. The beautiful people at the top, the grandiose design elements. Why does a guru who doesn't care about looks need to create a disneyland around herself?
Her lifestyle during they heyday certainly gave all appearances of being the antithesis of a truly renunciant sadhu.
I'm not into anyone wanting a sycophantic following. I'm busting that we can "see" the shakti line added with personal axe grinding and co-dependency (since we were just taken into the guru's mind and told how she thinks). Which doesn't help anyone's case against SY's cult mentality and the molestations. In fact, it plays into it as equal to the meaness we've come to dislike about SY. Not defending Gurumayi and her crap here. I'm older than GM and look better than her. Look around 35 and cannot afford any plastic surgery or massages, maids, butlers, servants, bourguoise health food, gyms and the like. It's just my genetic makeup. Sometimes that happens. To rag on those qualities is shallow when there are bigger fish to fry.
The whole 'seeing the Shakti' — and equating it with beauty, charisma, butterflies in your stomach etc. — was drilled into our heads over the years, even though it was a manipulative distortion of the original teaching, which was to 'see God/Shakti in everything, AS everything.' I suppose it's some kind of poetic justice to have that perversion of the truth turned upon the very one who did so much to pervert it. Perhaps our fascination with this topic ('Look! The Shakti's gone!') is a glimmering recognition of yet another splinter that's stuck in our psyche. Let's pull it out and move on.
D
Shakti is a palpable (and visible, feelable) force...yes, everything IS shakti but some situations have 'more' in the sense of the intensity and speed of vibration..so perhaps to say 'more' is incorrect, rather degree and elevation.....perhaps better to describe as a higher or lesser vibratory energy... GM's vibe once was very high and was indeed visible through the eyes.
Take a look at a picture of Ramana Maharshi's eyes face and you'll see what I mean. If you look into his eyes for long and are sensitive to the emanation...wow!
Some people live in a high vibration (above identification with the body) and can act as a portal for others to enter that state.
Gm once did. Gone now.
And while looking twenty years younger than age is nice, sure has nothing to do with vibratory energy lol. As one can still identify with only being the body and so be a trapped and bound soul.
If one wants to believe they can see the shakti through another's eyes then go for it. I don't and I don't buy into it. To each his own. But to think we all see the way that "seeing" person does and have it shoved in our face is co-dependent and still attached to the cult-like mentality. I'd rather be bound soul with all the other billions of bound souled people on earth than in a cult that thinks it can "see" the shakti. "The shakti did it" "The shakti made me do it" "It's the shakti" Always used as the grand excuse to cop out of being real or dealing with deep issues. It's ALL the shakti. All are equal. Not all are equal but some are more equal. That's the book Animal House describing totalitarian governments = SY Foundation. Time to move on with that arrogant co-dependent cult like thinking.
ps it's "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. My mistake or a Freudian slip.
I don't know where to begin to unravel how you took all that so I'll just leave it and wish you well. Too much work to try to parse out all the convoluted points. But anyone with an affinity for nondualism might resonate. Has nothing to do with codependency or hierarchy or anyone being 'better.' Oy
Animal House was pretty much the antithesis of Animal Farm.
One was anarchy and chaos.
The other was totalitarianism.
Also when someone has many axes to grind and some very understandable festering wounds to heal, it's a waste of a beautiful day to try to dispassionately discuss meaningful spiritual ideas. Too much other junk gets dragged in. And the day awaits!
" Who cares about her looks or plastic surgery. That's High School..and mean."
December 21, 2010 2:13 PM
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Gurumayi cared a lot about such things and riduculed many for not measuring up. As you say, 'that's High School..and mean' and indeed she was. Experienced a lot of it personally.
"Perhaps our fascination with this topic ('Look! The Shakti's gone!') is a glimmering recognition of yet another splinter that's stuck in our psyche. Let's pull it out and move on."
D
December 22, 2010 4:48 AM
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D,
You comment was helpful to me and thanks for it. Still getting rid of a long time involvement is a process. Mocking derision of a former god is part of it. Though very low brow and I think that is your point. So thanks.
"And the day awaits!"
December 22, 2010 1:03 PM
Double thanks for that. Good call to our better selves.
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Thanks for the forum Seekher. Peace and happiness to you and the company here. :-)
Thanks for the forum Seekher. Peace and happiness to you and the company here. :-)
December 23, 2010 4:37 AM
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(cute observation... 108 Comments)
And a Happy Solstice Season to all!
SeekHer ... and anyone else who wants to post on this... now that you're out of what's left of SY do you have a special way to celebrate Jan 1?
TT
"do you have a special way to celebrate Jan 1?"
Hi TT and everybody here,
I celebrate with eyes open looking at the world as it is. No fantasy. Very grounding.
Have a healthy new year all.
Seekher, thanks again.
Stopped by SYDA site today...
For those looking for work, FYI, there are over 42 long term positions open! Do they think anyone takes this seriously?
http://www.siddhayoga.org/serve-syda-foundation/long-term/positions
For the a county, population just over 75,000 Sullivan has all of 8 positions open.
Same old same old, fake phoney posturing.
"We're left trusting in only ourselves during a time in life and in an economy when so much seems so precarious." this quote was so poignant.
trusting only in ourselves. And this is SCARY? If you know who you really are and the tremendous power you contain, not scary at all. Especially exhilerating to be free of the chains that made the power all be projected onto a false idol.
Now you can claim it. Any of the good nondualist writers like Nisargadatta Maharaj and Adyashanti can be very helpful.
You contain multitudes and power beyond your imagining. Dependence on a spiritual fantasy-land just left many disenchanted and bitter when the circus pulled up the stakes and went home.
But now the real awakening can begin!
I'm getting kid of bored with the whole SY-anti SY line of discussion. Anyone make any good New Year's Resolutions?
I mean - the blog post we're in says "resurrection"... so I thought I'd ask... what's new with you or what do you want to make new in your life this year?
TT
TT - meditation!
During my 20 years in SY, I took all the Blue Pearl courses, all the other meditation courses offered - and never was able to meditate regularly.
I had an exceptionally good meditation experience at my first satsang which was in a SY ashram. But the first meditation technique taught to me in a SY workshop was wrong for me - both physically and philosophically, and SY never provided a format for individualized instruction and questions or any follow-up support to the meditation courses.
A first step - I'm taking the Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction program (designed by Jon Kabat-Zinn) at a Buddhist center. I have chronic physical problems that make meditation difficult for me. MBSR seems like a much healthier way of addressing them, rather than believing that the shakti will simply remove all the blocks and purify my body and enable me to meditate. After much reading and talking to people, and discarding many possibilities, I've chosen one group to support my goals when I'm at home, and a totally different but complementary group (at a teaching monastery) for the times when I need to live away from home.
2011 is a year to begin meditation anew. Some of the most positive experiences and also the most negative experiences of my life occurred in SY. I still feel weighed down every day by the negative ones, but this year is a time to start again with what I originally started in SY.
Many thanks to OBW, sadhvi, SeekHer, and everyone else on this site. I got a late start in reading the Internet stories (2009), and found this site to be a great help.
Yes, I agree with this comment re syda meditation...it most involved endless fantasizing and visualizing and hunting ecstatic reveries none of which had anything to do with knowing the SElf. Oy. Sixteen thousand dollars on intensives and blue pearl courses later, you realize true meditation is very easy and accessible without all that crud.
You are sooo true, Anonymous. Another resource: Adyashanti.org has a wonderful inexpensive book and cd set called True Meditation (for something like $30) that gave me more substantive understanding of meditation than I'd learned in fifteen years of all those nutty courses.
"A first step - I'm taking the Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction program (designed by Jon Kabat-Zinn) at a Buddhist center. I have chronic physical problems that make meditation difficult for me. MBSR seems like a much healthier way of addressing them, rather than believing that the shakti will simply remove all the blocks and purify my body and enable me to meditate."
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JKZ's Mindfulness Meditation is a very good substitute/replacement for the GuruDependent belief that meditation is impossible without the "Grace of A Master". Hogwash. Meditation is simple, possible, profoundly healing, and accessible to anyone who wants to learn a few simple posture and breathing techniques.
JKZ's method is real Buddhism in action ie "Where is the suffering? (a lot of it is in hospitals) That's where I'm taking the healing."
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"After much reading and talking to people, and discarding many possibilities, I've chosen one group to support my goals when I'm at home, and a totally different but complementary group (at a teaching monastery) for the times when I need to live away from home."
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I'm still looking for that balance in my meditation program. Congrats on finding it for yourself.
And Happy New Year to You!
TT
Question on the recent posts about Jon Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness Meditation method:
How does it differ from Thich Nhat Hanh's Mindfulness Meditation method?
Are there differences or are they essentially the same?
A place of worship and religious rights.
How many of us are we? What is our strength? Definitely we need to start somehow a healing process, the problem is that SYDA and G stubbornly deny there is aa Illness at all, so why the need to heal? There are or were around 1 million SYDA followers worldwide unofficially, most of them in the US, perhaps more but the majority are new comers and sympathizers, the lifelong devotees are way fewer. Let’s do a little activism, demand our rights for a change, how about gathering a few thousand people at the doors of Shree Muktananda Ashram on an auspicious day, Shivaratri or Gurupurnima in a peaceful meditative demonstration to regain access to the Temple, the meditation caves, the morning and evening chants, the gardens and the lake, yes our lake, our Temple! Let’s make history, Why has SYDA denied access to those areas pretending private property rights when it is well known that in Ganeshpuri, the ashram must allow access to visitors to what is considered public areas, for religious practices, reserving access to the living quarters only for residents?. Why do we have to put up with this? Do we have religious rights on America? Tear down the wall Mr. Gorbachov! Allow us access to our places of worship, they should not be considered private property, we all contributed to building them with blood sweat and tears and even new comers should have the right to visit them with no prerequisites. They can regulate the hours of visit but they should not have the right close their doors indefinitely. A quite meditation in the Temple after Arati or a japa walk around the lake, a cup of chai would be a nice way to start, at least for me. They argue that we would disturb the residents, why so if we respect the schedule and observe a respectful attitude. I’d even be willing to pay a small fee for maintenance, the use of the facilities and register as a visitor. We do not want reparation for damages, excuses or apologies; we just want access to what we consider sacred grounds without preconditions, freely. Could that be a place to start? Is anyone else up to it? Of course the best healing would come from the words of the guru, intensives and classes but in their absence, why deny us all access to what is rightfully ours; the freedom to practice our religion in our Temple, do we have a legal argument here? Would it help anyone else? Do you want to start a revolution?
Thanks for RoD
Sorry the coment apreard several times, my mistake. Thanks again RoD
Dear many-posted anonymous at 3:20 AM,
Let go of it, there are many sacred places on this earth that are open to all, no gates, no fences, no stinking badges! I can't imagine being at SMA today doing what you suggest--my mind would be too aware of all that has passed. You'd have to be living in a dream world to enjoy it.
There were never a million of us. Not even close. If you counted every single person who ever came to a program anywhere, it would still not have been even half that number. I was at a meeting once at the time when large numbers were being bandied about publicly, and no less an authority than Lester S. said that the previous year (a "big" year, with multiple intensives in many locations, a big summer in Fallsburg with lots of courses and a Global Conference, etc), 20,000 people had attended programs at centers and ashrams around the world or participated in the correspondence course. It was a "secret" (and many at the meeting were confused, having believed SY was much bigger than that). The meeting's intention was to get us "insiders" to really push the global monthly offering program, because only 1400 people were part of it. 1400. They were hoping for 20% of the 20K, or 4000 people. This was in the heyday, 97 or 98. And that 20,000--that wasn't individuals, it was acknowledged that that included people who had been to three or four or more "events". Just a reality check.
OBW
I am sure you are right OBW That’s what I meant about the sympathizers, many people heard the Cd’s and followed the New Year’s messages without ever setting foot in an ashram or donating any of their time and money. The siddha yoga guru’s influence went far beyond her core group of followers, influencing national advertising, Hollywood movies, even Christian and other denomination groups. All those near and distant followers have now been alienated by this absurd lock down and surely represent the vast majority, so if the power is in the numbers, they or we could transform the situation easily, overflow the gates. SYDA in living of it’s savings, they still have a lot of money in the bank and a lot of buildings and properties to sell but the inflow of resources has stop a long time ago. You are also right about the “sacred grounds” they are no longer sacred for me or for many of us. My suggestion is that part of the power, perhaps ALL of the power that SYDA has left resides in the lock down, in the mystery behind the wall and that perhaps breaking the barrier between those who are in and those who are out would have the healing effect of discovering there was really nothing between them, just a group of interests. We built a Temple for them and now they want to keep it only as their own, they are living of the resources we made for them, accusing us of not being the real followers! What an arrogance! To read a blog like this and not even pretending it exists, to ignore a community of hurt and heartbroken people and ignore them, accusing them of I don’t know what. That’s what inspired the idea to tear down the wall, surely once the wall is down we will finally be realize there is really nothing in the other side, and perhaps we could fell better walking around other “lakes”.
Oh goodness, Anon, the idea of barricading SMA is just like nightmare to me! Who would want to go back to all that? Yes, it was 'home' for many years but once you wake up and realize there's nothing you 'need' why would you go begging for entry like a pauper. It's a sad, sorry little path. I do miss Bade Baba but luckily He is Everywhere.
As for the rest of it, glad to see it go. As OBW said, the world is full of holy spots. Right now I'd consider the shopping mall in Middletown more sacred.
I'm with the anon at 4:09 AM. The only "power" it has is the power you give it. By fighting it, you give it power. I have no interest in going back there any more, let them lock it up like a miser's purse! One day they will be gone and the rocks and the land and the trees will remain (and the lake with the murti of Bhagawan immersed in it--maybe two murtis by then). And we'll be gone, too--so let's spend the time we have in a way that feeds our souls and the souls of others.
OBW
Dear Seekher,
I want to send you a possible entry for you to preview. It appears to be too long to be a comment. I'd like to send it to you and if i=you feel it's appropriate, I'd appreciate getting the comments from this community.
What address can I use to send to you?
Thanks,
R+L
birchreed@gmail.com
Thank you all for opening your hearts and minds regarding the current state of SY. I left in the mid-90s at the suggestion of my best friend who happens to be a minister. He obviously saw things that I didn't see at the time.
I am so glad I never felt trapped enough to spend all my cash in this place. By the way, have you seen the ridiculous prices they are now charging for rudraksha beads?
I hope G is soon found sound and alive. This is a very worrisome situation and I wish you all the best!
Kalidas
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