Thursday, September 23, 2010

When Kristians Attempt Kriyas

The demon-obsessed members of a church in Texas prove you don't need shaktipat to shake, rattle and roll in worship. Go on and fast-forward through the thoroughly uninspiring woman screaming at the beginning of this clip; my fave part comes 48 seconds in when a man appears to be trying to vomit up the mother of all hairballs as his children sit bored-out-of-their-gourds alongside. And you thought YOU had it bad as a hall monitor:

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thanks for that good laugh. A dancing saptah, too!

Anonymous said...

All Hallows Eve in the mandap.

Anonymous said...

SeekHer,

Did you ever see the documentary, from maybe four years ago, "Jesus Camp"? If not, it's a must. But be warned: it's also, IMO, the most terrifying horror film ever made. I'd forgotten all about (or maybe blocked) it until seeing this clip.

- Lucid

Anonymous said...

And, on a somewhat related note, check out this link, complete with pic of Baba and his two co-successors. Apparently Subash didn't burn his copies and now posts them on auspicious occasions like Gurupurnima:

http://networkedblogs.com/6adby

"We are family, hey, hey, hey, hey-y'all . . . "

- Lucid

Anonymous said...

Authentic photo. I clearly remember that photo from Siddha Path magazine. Had to be sometime between May and October 1982. The Pattabhishek ceremony in Ganeshpuri to officially pass the "lineage" on to Nit and Chid was held in May during the annual Muk's birthday celebrations, and he obviously passed on October 2, 1982.

It makes me wonder what percentage of people who got involved with GM and never met Muk or were around during his time, are even aware of the very public, very heavily videotaped and photographed nature, of both that week in May 1982, and that month in October, 1982, when these very major events in the history of this "path".

I truly wish I hadn't been a loyal sheep and had had the guts to have not burned my photos and magazines and videos of that era. Five years out from quitting SY, it would certainly be interesting to see the reactions of those who never knew such photos, etc. existed upon seeing them for the first time.

My sense is that they might set a lot of gears turning in the heads of some of the sheep.

Then again, maybe not. People like Nada and Bernie were around from at least Muk's 2nd world tour and they're still fully enmeshed. She's nearly 70 and he's nearly 80 years of age. If they haven't faced the truth yet, they're just not gonna.

SeekHer said...

Lucid

I have Jesus Camp on DVD and have never watched it, I think because the girl on the front cover looks remarkably like my niece and I can't stand the idea of watching her brainwashed. That doc is about Ted Haggard's church, isn't it? I saw him on CNN with Anderson Cooper defending Bishop Eddy Long from charges of using his spiritual authority to have sex with young men. My God that man is more of a fame whore than he was an actual whore when he was doing meth off of the ass of a male prostitute/

SeekHer said...

RE: PHOTO

Thanks for this link; very interesting. I'm sure the pic is authentic, though it almost looks photoshopped (the doctoring of photos having become so commonplace that even real ones look fake nowadays.)
Nityanands looks cool and confident of his accession, Chidvilasananda not so much. If he only knew.

Anonymous said...

SeekHer,

Oh, it's authentic. I remember it CLEARLY. Definitely NOT photo-shopped.

Nit looks just like he looked back then. He didn't start gaining weight until after Muk died. In fact, when I first saw him in 1981 he was still trim and actually somewhat athletic-looking.

Chid still very much looks as she looked back when she was Malti, the translator.

Except when I look in Chid'd eyes in that photo, now that I'm five years out from quitting SY, I can only see one thing: PURE EVIL (with a lot of lust for power mixed in).

She had incredible stately beauty when she was still Malti. Who knows what kind of person she could have been, had she not been caught up in all this.

Anonymous said...

Crap. Now that song is in my head. What is he singing? "This God is trouble?"

Anonymous said...

An additional family photo is also available via:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3470950&id=182667608601&ref=fbx_album

If the above link is fritzy, go to:

http://www.facebook.com/gurudevnityananda

then go into Photos, and click on Wall Photos to access an early B & W of brother and sister seated side by side.

I discovered this pic, and the other color one (which is also found on this FB page), a few days ago. First time I'd ever seen Gurumayi and her brother together, though this late in the game it struck me as almost dissapointingly anti-climactic.

A non-SY friend I shared these links with emailed back suggesting life-size cardboard cut outs be placed at the the entrance to every center to greet visitors.

Trick or Treat!

- Lucid

Anonymous said...

Lucid,

On the photo of bro and sis together in your last comment:

I had also seen this one. It was taken either a couple of months before Muk died, or shortly thereafter when the "co-gurus" were power sharing.

Chid looked like this...was it August 1982???...that he sent Chid to Fallsburg and Nit to Australia to conduct one-month retreats and end-of-retreat intensives. She also looked like this after Muk passed, but her hair was just a tad longer by that point.

Remember, she had her head shaven for the sannyasa ceremony she underwent before the Pattabhishek "transfer of lineage" ceremony I mentioned yesterday, which was in May 1982. I suppose by the time this pic was taken, her hair had grown back somewhat to resemble a very short haircut.

I actually had my hopes up that it would be a different picture. Shortly after the Mahasamadhi, a black and white photo came out of bro and sis giving darshan together. The weird thing about that darshan pic was, each of them had a different expression on their faces, but each expression was an expression often seen on Muk. Perhaps it was staged.

It still never ceases to amaze me, having lived in SY through that period, how those who started SY after the 1984 - 1985 period of Nit's dethronement and after the "book and photo burnings" had taken place, can marvel at these photos. For me it's simply a matter of fact "Oh, yeah, I remember that one."

That's how complete the purge of prior history was.

Sure wish I'd had my eyes open and my critical brain thinking about the implications of that purge at the time, rather than ust willingly swallowing the kool-aid. Had I allowed myself to recognize what was really going on at the time and woken up, my life to date could have been sooooo, soooo different.

Ah, me. Hindsight's always 20/20 I guess.

Anonymous said...

Siddha Yoga popped up on my radar in the early 1980s, I met Gurumayi in 1989, and went whole hog by 1993 -- and coasted through the above ten-year process without once bumping into the "Have you heard about her brother?" question. Although (as I found out later) several people in my SY circle, including those closest to me, were around when the succession happened, and many had read the Co-Evolution Quarterly article, I guess by the time I came along they considered that moment in history dead and buried -- and nothing that needed to be shared with a "newcomer" like me.

When the bomb was accidentally dropped, I don't know what was more disturbing -- the fact that I had been so effectively kept unaware of this piece of SY's history or the fact that it had never occurred to me to ask the kind of questions that would have led to me discovering the truth on my own.

Gurumayi had a sibling? Parents? A family? A life prior to the moment I met her, looked into her eyes and went head first into a free-fall?

Why hadn't any such questions occurred to me?

There are many answers, of course, and they vary for each of us. It takes two to tango and as glaring as SY's skillful seduction seems now, I am aware of the all the steps I too took in order to keep that dance going.


I am also remembering now how disturbed I was, how sick I felt when I first learned about all the pictures being burned. I couldn't sit with that news for even a moment; my mind immediately ran in the other direction thinking, I don't know, something like, In SY they burn things to purify them, or some such rationale.

And I remember as vividly as any other memory I have about SY the moment I first learned about Gurumayi's brother, the moment I first learned I'd been deceived by the "being" I then viewed as my salvation.

I just can't imagine if I'd been around, full force, prior to Baba's death, and then in the years following asked to participate in the great purge.

Incredible lessons learned, I'm sure. So, so much to get over.

- Lucid

Anonymous said...

Lucid,

The denial, cognitive dissonance, and willing suspension of disbelief that people experienced under GM's era was no different than that experienced in Muk's era or even during the transition.

In fact is was the transition period when a LOT of Muk people dropped away. Many simply couldn't relate to either of the two siblings. Others tried as hard as they could to connect to one or the other...in fact, most who remained connected with ONLY one or the other. Few connected well with both.

Muk stated when he named Nit Jr to be his successor...and very publicly, I might add...there were photos of this in Siddha Path also and I knew folks who were there in Fallsburg in...I think it was in July of 1981...when Muk suddenly made this announcement in front of the crowd in Turiya Mandir (later renamed Muktananda Mandir after he had passed on), that "You have been accepted into my university, but it is up to you whether you graduate."

Many at the time read into that something along of the lines of "you've progressed far along the road to realization but are not fully there yet."

Speaking of the succession, I don't know if many folks who joined SY after 1984 to 1985 know this, but Malti was NOT co-named successor at that event in Fallsburg. ONLY Nit Jr. Sometime around late summer or early autumn of 1981, word simply got passed around (total word of mouth, no official pronouncements from Muk) that Malti would also become one of Muk's two successors. Whether the rumors of Malti blackmailing Muk to make her a successor also are true are not, I can't speak to this, but the fact that Muk made no official pronouncements about it and it just slowly, quietly, gradually got understood by the Sangham that Subhash and Malti would share the throne, certainly lend credence. Muk couldn't have been happy about being blackmailed (IF he was blackmailed) and wouldn't have been too interested in telling the world publicly.

Anyway, more on how this relates to Nit's dethronement and the "purge" in my next comment.

Anonymous said...

So the connection was the statement by Muk "You have been accepted into my university, but it is up to you whether you graduate."

When GM told the sangham that Nit would be "retiring" and returning to normal devotee life (and actually pledged his loyalty to his sister on video!) the explanation given was that he DIDN'T graduate and had let lust get the better of him.

But the weird thing was, there was an article in Siddha Path where GM made some reference to some joke or something going on at the Ashram (not sure which one) that women's panties had been found in Nit Jr's quarters and that somebody had left them there. I forget the context of the explanation of WHY they were left there, but I CLEARLY remember the reference in the article. Long and short is that they were trying to make light or humor of it.

And what I realized years later was that either Malti first tried to COVER for Subhash, or was simply buying herself time to figure out how to deal with the situation to her own best advantage.

As to WHY that reference even made it into Siddha Path...beats the heck outta me. Why would anyone in their right mind air their own "dirty laundry" (Literally!! LMAOROTF!!) for the SY world to read...sure beats the heck outta me.

Later, the reason for the picture and magazine and video burning was that what Nit Jr did had been impure, and that the photos of him and references to him carried an impurity and would be unhelpful to people's progress in their sadhana.

Like many, I simply willingly suspended disbelief and put my old Siddha Paths and photos of Nit Jr into a trashcan and had a little bonfire in my backyard.

And I shake my head now at the foolishness of it and am ashamed to have participated in it. To think of the value such photos and magazines would have, in convincing people who weren't around at that time, that they really HAVE been lied to...would have been PRICELESS.

I pretty much had it all...the Siddha Path with Muk announcing Nit Jr was his successor (article and photos), the Siddha Paths of the Rajabhishek, Malti's sannyasa, and Pattabhishek ceremonies, the Siddha Paths after Muk's passing, loads of photos of both of them on the "shared sofa throne" for darshan.

ALL of them, up in smoke.
Sad.

Anonymous said...

So the connection was the statement by Muk "You have been accepted into my university, but it is up to you whether you graduate."

When GM told the sangham that Nit would be "retiring" and returning to normal devotee life (and actually pledged his loyalty to his sister on video!) the explanation given was that he DIDN'T graduate and had let lust get the better of him.

But the weird thing was, there was an article in Siddha Path where GM made some reference to some joke or something going on at the Ashram (not sure which one) that women's panties had been found in Nit Jr's quarters and that somebody had left them there. I forget the context of the explanation of WHY they were left there, but I CLEARLY remember the reference in the article. Long and short is that they were trying to make light or humor of it.

And what I realized years later was that either Malti first tried to COVER for Subhash, or was simply buying herself time to figure out how to deal with the situation to her own best advantage.

As to WHY that reference even made it into Siddha Path...beats the heck outta me. Why would anyone in their right mind air their own "dirty laundry" (Literally!! LMAOROTF!!) for the SY world to read...sure beats the heck outta me.

Later, the reason for the picture and magazine and video burning was that what Nit Jr did had been impure, and that the photos of him and references to him carried an impurity and would be unhelpful to people's progress in their sadhana.

Like many, I simply willingly suspended disbelief and put my old Siddha Paths and photos of Nit Jr into a trashcan and had a little bonfire in my backyard.

And I shake my head now at the foolishness of it and am ashamed to have participated in it. To think of the value such photos and magazines would have, in convincing people who weren't around at that time, that they really HAVE been lied to...would have been PRICELESS.

I pretty much had it all...the Siddha Path with Muk announcing Nit Jr was his successor (article and photos), the Siddha Paths of the Rajabhishek, Malti's sannyasa, and Pattabhishek ceremonies, the Siddha Paths after Muk's passing, loads of photos of both of them on the "shared sofa throne" for darshan.

ALL of them, up in smoke.
Sad.

Anonymous said...

So the connection was the statement by Muk "You have been accepted into my university, but it is up to you whether you graduate."

When GM told the sangham that Nit would be "retiring" and returning to normal devotee life (and actually pledged his loyalty to his sister on video!) the explanation given was that he DIDN'T graduate and had let lust get the better of him.

But the weird thing was, there was an article in Siddha Path where GM made some reference to some joke or something going on at the Ashram (not sure which one) that women's panties had been found in Nit Jr's quarters and that somebody had left them there. I forget the context of the explanation of WHY they were left there, but I CLEARLY remember the reference in the article. Long and short is that they were trying to make light or humor of it.

And what I realized years later was that either Malti first tried to COVER for Subhash, or was simply buying herself time to figure out how to deal with the situation to her own best advantage.

As to WHY that reference even made it into Siddha Path...beats the heck outta me. Why would anyone in their right mind air their own "dirty laundry" (Literally!! LMAOROTF!!) for the SY world to read...sure beats the heck outta me.

Later, the reason for the picture and magazine and video burning was that what Nit Jr did had been impure, and that the photos of him and references to him carried an impurity and would be unhelpful to people's progress in their sadhana.

Like many, I simply willingly suspended disbelief and put my old Siddha Paths and photos of Nit Jr into a trashcan and had a little bonfire in my backyard.

And I shake my head now at the foolishness of it and am ashamed to have participated in it. To think of the value such photos and magazines would have, in convincing people who weren't around at that time, that they really HAVE been lied to...would have been PRICELESS.

I pretty much had it all...the Siddha Path with Muk announcing Nit Jr was his successor (article and photos), the Siddha Paths of the Rajabhishek, Malti's sannyasa, and Pattabhishek ceremonies, the Siddha Paths after Muk's passing, loads of photos of both of them on the "shared sofa throne" for darshan.

ALL of them, up in smoke.
Sad.

Anonymous said...

So the connection was the statement by Muk "You have been accepted into my university, but it is up to you whether you graduate."

When GM told the sangham that Nit would be "retiring" and returning to normal devotee life (and actually pledged his loyalty to his sister on video!) the explanation given was that he DIDN'T graduate and had let lust get the better of him.

But the weird thing was, there was an article in Siddha Path where GM made some reference to some joke or something going on at the Ashram (not sure which one) that women's panties had been found in Nit Jr's quarters and that somebody had left them there. I forget the context of the explanation of WHY they were left there, but I CLEARLY remember the reference in the article. Long and short is that they were trying to make light or humor of it.

And what I realized years later was that either Malti first tried to COVER for Subhash, or was simply buying herself time to figure out how to deal with the situation to her own best advantage.

As to WHY that reference even made it into Siddha Path...beats the heck outta me. Why would anyone in their right mind air their own "dirty laundry" (Literally!! LMAOROTF!!) for the SY world to read...sure beats the heck outta me.

Later, the reason for the picture and magazine and video burning was that what Nit Jr did had been impure, and that the photos of him and references to him carried an impurity and would be unhelpful to people's progress in their sadhana.

Like many, I simply willingly suspended disbelief and put my old Siddha Paths and photos of Nit Jr into a trashcan and had a little bonfire in my backyard.

And I shake my head now at the foolishness of it and am ashamed to have participated in it. To think of the value such photos and magazines would have, in convincing people who weren't around at that time, that they really HAVE been lied to...would have been PRICELESS.

I pretty much had it all...the Siddha Path with Muk announcing Nit Jr was his successor (article and photos), the Siddha Paths of the Rajabhishek, Malti's sannyasa, and Pattabhishek ceremonies, the Siddha Paths after Muk's passing, loads of photos of both of them on the "shared sofa throne" for darshan.

ALL of them, up in smoke.
Sad.

Anonymous said...

So the connection was the statement by Muk "You have been accepted into my university, but it is up to you whether you graduate."

When GM told the sangham that Nit would be "retiring" and returning to normal devotee life (and actually pledged his loyalty to his sister on video!) the explanation given was that he DIDN'T graduate and had let lust get the better of him.

But the weird thing was, there was an article in Siddha Path where GM made some reference to some joke or something going on at the Ashram (not sure which one) that women's panties had been found in Nit Jr's quarters and that somebody had left them there. I forget the context of the explanation of WHY they were left there, but I CLEARLY remember the reference in the article. Long and short is that they were trying to make light or humor of it.

And what I realized years later was that either Malti first tried to COVER for Subhash, or was simply buying herself time to figure out how to deal with the situation to her own best advantage.

As to WHY that reference even made it into Siddha Path...beats the heck outta me. Why would anyone in their right mind air their own "dirty laundry" (Literally!! LMAOROTF!!) for the SY world to read...sure beats the heck outta me.

Later, the reason for the picture and magazine and video burning was that what Nit Jr did had been impure, and that the photos of him and references to him carried an impurity and would be unhelpful to people's progress in their sadhana.

Like many, I simply willingly suspended disbelief and put my old Siddha Paths and photos of Nit Jr into a trashcan and had a little bonfire in my backyard.

And I shake my head now at the foolishness of it and am ashamed to have participated in it. To think of the value such photos and magazines would have, in convincing people who weren't around at that time, that they really HAVE been lied to...would have been PRICELESS.

I pretty much had it all...the Siddha Path with Muk announcing Nit Jr was his successor (article and photos), the Siddha Paths of the Rajabhishek, Malti's sannyasa, and Pattabhishek ceremonies, the Siddha Paths after Muk's passing, loads of photos of both of them on the "shared sofa throne" for darshan.

ALL of them, up in smoke.
Sad.

Anonymous said...

So the connection was the statement by Muk "You have been accepted into my university, but it is up to you whether you graduate."

When GM told the sangham that Nit would be "retiring" and returning to normal devotee life (and actually pledged his loyalty to his sister on video!) the explanation given was that he DIDN'T graduate and had let lust get the better of him.

But the weird thing was, there was an article in Siddha Path where GM made some reference to some joke or something going on at the Ashram (not sure which one) that women's panties had been found in Nit Jr's quarters and that somebody had left them there. I forget the context of the explanation of WHY they were left there, but I CLEARLY remember the reference in the article. Long and short is that they were trying to make light or humor of it.

And what I realized years later was that either Malti first tried to COVER for Subhash, or was simply buying herself time to figure out how to deal with the situation to her own best advantage.

As to WHY that reference even made it into Siddha Path...beats the heck outta me. Why would anyone in their right mind air their own "dirty laundry" (Literally!! LMAOROTF!!) for the SY world to read...sure beats the heck outta me.

Later, the reason for the picture and magazine and video burning was that what Nit Jr did had been impure, and that the photos of him and references to him carried an impurity and would be unhelpful to people's progress in their sadhana.

Like many, I simply willingly suspended disbelief and put my old Siddha Paths and photos of Nit Jr into a trashcan and had a little bonfire in my backyard.

And I shake my head now at the foolishness of it and am ashamed to have participated in it. To think of the value such photos and magazines would have, in convincing people who weren't around at that time, that they really HAVE been lied to...would have been PRICELESS.

I pretty much had it all...the Siddha Path with Muk announcing Nit Jr was his successor (article and photos), the Siddha Paths of the Rajabhishek, Malti's sannyasa, and Pattabhishek ceremonies, the Siddha Paths after Muk's passing, loads of photos of both of them on the "shared sofa throne" for darshan.

ALL of them, up in smoke.
Sad.

Anonymous said...

Sorry for the multiple posts...not sure what happened there.

I only hit the "publish" button once. And the whole website dropped away and my internet connection went down. Argh!

Anonymous said...

At about the 30 second mark you will see a clip from 1981 of Muktanda garlanding Nityananda, declaring "He will be my succesor" while Malti sits watching off to the side:

Shanti Mandir Temple of Peace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLnt-d1eYGM

Anonymous said...

Wow...didn't know video of that still existed. Obviously Subhash didn't burn his copies!

If I'm not mistaken, the beach scenes with the dog right after Muk garlanded Subhash were filmed in Miami...I believe during Winter 1979 or 1980? Can't remember exactly, unfortunately.

Anonymous said...

What do you think of Malti's body language when Mukt declares the brother as the successor in that video? I am trying to figure out if she was happy or not.

Anonymous said...

Well she certainly wasn't smiling at the "news" was she?

And I say "news" because there had been wide speculation during the months prior to that moment that merely be being given the name "Nityananda" during the sannyasa rituals that Muk held when Subhash was given that name, about what it portended.

Anonymous said...

As someone who didn't catch their first nasty whiff of this until I was in over my head, and someone who didn't come across until a few years after leaving such, um, small details as Subash being appointed first and a chunk of time before Malti at that, what's striking to me about this youtube clip is the juxtaposition of Nityanda standing in full swami regalia, and Malti kneeling in civilian attire, scooting out of the way as he is pronounced successor.

To SEE this now -- nearly thirty years after the event took place, and almost two decades since my initial discovery of this SY "secret" propelled me into a what I thought at the time was a spiritual crisis -- I'm not quite sure what to make of my reaction.

To actually SEE a moment in history we were so effectively convinced (at least those of us who came on board post-1985) never took place is a bit of a trip.

But aside from the small thrill of seeing Gurumayi, her brother, and Baba all interacting in the same shot, watching it now, oddly, I feel almost nothing.

- Lucid

Anonymous said...

That twist in her body language when Mukt announces his choice says everything. Malti was definitely surprised... or shocked. Her body reacted, she was not the guru then but a civilian. The video stamp says July 1981, the sannayasi ceremony was not until May 1982. Her hair is still long. But why then is Subash in orange? I got involved in the 1990's.

Anonymous said...

Subhash was in orange because he actually WAS a sannyasi by then.

Subhash took Sannyasa along with a VERY LARGE group of non-Indians who became Swamis.

I can't remember the date but I think it was either sometime in late 1980 or early 1981...and also can't remmber if the ceremonies were in Ganeshpuri or in Los Angeles...I want to say Los Angeles because Muk's third (and final) "World Tour" away from India lasted a good 2.5 to 3 years, and Muk was in Santa Monica prior to when I met him in Fallsburg in late spring 1981.

Again, I'm kicking myself for having been a good sheep and burning all my old Siddha Path Magazines because the article and photos of the big group, including Subhash when he got the name "Nityananda" were DEFINITELY in Siddha Path, and I used to have that particular edition in my former collection.

Drat. Burnt 'em all. What a waste.

Anonymous said...

Forgot to mention earlier...people who started SY in the late '80's or during the '90's would be amazed at just how MANY non-Indian swamis there once were in SY. At one point the count was around 40 to 50 people, mostly non-Indian.

Gradually, over a long period of time, most of those people left the Saraswati order to rejoin "civilian" life, quit SY entirely, or both.

Anonymous said...

As a bit of trivial pursuit, I'm now curious: how long was Muk officially on the international guru circuit? And, prior to that, how long had he been developing a devotee base of any notable size in India? Did the first Nityananda have an actual ashram of his own that Mukt used as a model or were GSP, SMA, etc. all Mukt's own devising?

(Always had the sense with the original Nit that his devotees found him -- not the other way around -- and that he was just sort of "there" without concern, or much formality, one way or another about his "role"...)

Anyway, just curious to know the window of time that can be marked off as Mukt's career. As a ballpark I'm guessing approx. 20 years? 1962-1982, with the latter 10 on the international scene? When Malti's parents first brought her to Mukt's ashram he was in his 60's?

Thanks in advance for insight on the above from those who may have been around long enough ago to recall . . .

Anonymous said...

The questions were asked:

1. How long was Muk officially on the international guru circuit?

Answer: First world tour was around 1970 or 1971, with VERY brief visits to Australia, the US, and Europe and was back in Ganeshpuri between 1971'ish and 1974. Second world tour was from 1974 - 1976. He was back in Ganeshpuri between '76 and '78. Third world tour was from 1978 and 1981. He went back to India in Autumn 1981 with a chartered Air India jetliner and a LOT of devotees following him there. If I remember correctly all the passengers were reported to be SY leadership and devotees.


2. And, prior to that, how long had he been developing a devotee base of any notable size in India?

After he "succeeded" Nityananda in 1961 or 1962...I forget which year it was when Nityananda passed away.
He did seem to have many, many more Indian devotees (at least by my observation) than GM. Like I said in a prior post, many Muk devotees could not relate to either Malti or Subhash and dropped away after Muk died. In the case of many of the Indians, I suspect (but do not know for sure, just an educated guess) that they were younger and less "fully baked" from an Indian perspective, as well as less traditional, than Muk had been. And thus, perhaps many of them dropped away for such reasons...but again, it's just a guess. I know other Indians who've remained "loyal" throughout. In one such family of Marathi speakers originally from Pune, the grandmother was a devotee of the original Nityananda and the family has stuck by the "lineage" throughout.

Anonymous said...

3. Did the first Nityananda have an actual ashram of his own that Mukt used as a model or were GSP, SMA, etc. all Mukt's own devising?

Ever been to Ganeshpuri? The temple area in town, and the house Nityananda had, are there. At GSP, there's a little building attached to the main Ashram that seems to mainly be for the local Indians to hold satsang, and not many of the Westerners seem to venture in there. That little building was the original Gavdevi ashram that Nityananda supposedly told Muk to go stay at in the several years before Nityananda passed away. In other words, Muk's original Ganeshpuri ashram before he worked to get GSP built.

SMA was called "Shree Nityananda Ashram" when I started SY since Muk was still alive. It forget the name of the hotel it used to be...but it was purchased around 1978 and came into full use around 1979 or 1980, a year before I met Muk in spring 1981. At that time, "Turiya Mandir", now known as "Muktananda Mandir" was still pretty new and had recently been revamped for its use as a large meditation hall.

And "Turiya Mandir" was VERY different from the Muktananda Mandir of today. MUCH smaller...the back section of MM used to be a separate set of rooms and the walls were knocked down to expand the meditation hall. Also, all those columns and pillars, and the opulent pujas, weren't there either. The coloring of the carpet and the walls were also very, VERY different. GM changed that hall significantly and made it a LOT more luxurious.

Oh...and the Nityananda temple was MUCH smaller and was open-air. The facility seen in GM's day was also significantly enlarged and made much more opulent. All those crystals, the statues of the gods and goddesses, etc....none of that was there in Muk's day. Just an open air small (VERY small) temple with Nityananda's murti. In winter, there was a temporary enclosure put around it with space heaters to keep the murti from freezing. Just beyond the temple was a large, oblong fountain with flagpoles and flags of all the nations that SY had ashrams and centers in. And finally...all those statues of Shiva, Jesus, Moses, Martin Luther King, etc. seen on the "silent path" (another GM addition...in Muk's day there was no Atma Nidhi nor Sadhana Kutir...only what is now Anugraha)...it was GM who moved those to the silent path. All those statues used to be near the windows on the lawn in front of the "guru's house" side of the building in Muk's day.

Anonymous said...

3. Did the first Nityananda have an actual ashram of his own that Mukt used as a model or were GSP, SMA, etc. all Mukt's own devising?

Ever been to Ganeshpuri? The temple area in town, and the house Nityananda had, are there. At GSP, there's a little building attached to the main Ashram that seems to mainly be for the local Indians to hold satsang, and not many of the Westerners seem to venture in there. That little building was the original Gavdevi ashram that Nityananda supposedly told Muk to go stay at in the several years before Nityananda passed away. In other words, Muk's original Ganeshpuri ashram before he worked to get GSP built.

SMA was called "Shree Nityananda Ashram" when I started SY since Muk was still alive. It forget the name of the hotel it used to be...but it was purchased around 1978 and came into full use around 1979 or 1980, a year before I met Muk in spring 1981. At that time, "Turiya Mandir", now known as "Muktananda Mandir" was still pretty new and had recently been revamped for its use as a large meditation hall.

And "Turiya Mandir" was VERY different from the Muktananda Mandir of today. MUCH smaller...the back section of MM used to be a separate set of rooms and the walls were knocked down to expand the meditation hall. Also, all those columns and pillars, and the opulent pujas, weren't there either. The coloring of the carpet and the walls were also very, VERY different. GM changed that hall significantly and made it a LOT more luxurious.

Oh...and the Nityananda temple was MUCH smaller and was open-air. The facility seen in GM's day was also significantly enlarged and made much more opulent. All those crystals, the statues of the gods and goddesses, etc....none of that was there in Muk's day. Just an open air small (VERY small) temple with Nityananda's murti. In winter, there was a temporary enclosure put around it with space heaters to keep the murti from freezing. Just beyond the temple was a large, oblong fountain with flagpoles and flags of all the nations that SY had ashrams and centers in. And finally...all those statues of Shiva, Jesus, Moses, Martin Luther King, etc. seen on the "silent path" (another GM addition...in Muk's day there was no Atma Nidhi nor Sadhana Kutir...only what is now Anugraha)...it was GM who moved those to the silent path. All those statues used to be near the windows on the lawn in front of the "guru's house" side of the building in Muk's day.

Anonymous said...

3. Did the first Nityananda have an actual ashram of his own that Mukt used as a model or were GSP, SMA, etc. all Mukt's own devising?

Ever been to Ganeshpuri? The temple area in town, and the house Nityananda had, are there. At GSP, there's a little building attached to the main Ashram that seems to mainly be for the local Indians to hold satsang, and not many of the Westerners seem to venture in there. That little building was the original Gavdevi ashram that Nityananda supposedly told Muk to go stay at in the several years before Nityananda passed away. In other words, Muk's original Ganeshpuri ashram before he worked to get GSP built.

SMA was called "Shree Nityananda Ashram" when I started SY since Muk was still alive. It forget the name of the hotel it used to be...but it was purchased around 1978 and came into full use around 1979 or 1980, a year before I met Muk in spring 1981. At that time, "Turiya Mandir", now known as "Muktananda Mandir" was still pretty new and had recently been revamped for its use as a large meditation hall.

And "Turiya Mandir" was VERY different from the Muktananda Mandir of today. MUCH smaller...the back section of MM used to be a separate set of rooms and the walls were knocked down to expand the meditation hall. Also, all those columns and pillars, and the opulent pujas, weren't there either. The coloring of the carpet and the walls were also very, VERY different. GM changed that hall significantly and made it a LOT more luxurious.

Oh...and the Nityananda temple was MUCH smaller and was open-air. The facility seen in GM's day was also significantly enlarged and made much more opulent. All those crystals, the statues of the gods and goddesses, etc....none of that was there in Muk's day. Just an open air small (VERY small) temple with Nityananda's murti. In winter, there was a temporary enclosure put around it with space heaters to keep the murti from freezing. Just beyond the temple was a large, oblong fountain with flagpoles and flags of all the nations that SY had ashrams and centers in. And finally...all those statues of Shiva, Jesus, Moses, Martin Luther King, etc. seen on the "silent path" (another GM addition...in Muk's day there was no Atma Nidhi nor Sadhana Kutir...only what is now Anugraha)...it was GM who moved those to the silent path. All those statues used to be near the windows on the lawn in front of the "guru's house" side of the building in Muk's day.

Anonymous said...

3. Did the first Nityananda have an actual ashram of his own that Mukt used as a model or were GSP, SMA, etc. all Mukt's own devising?

Ever been to Ganeshpuri? The temple area in town, and the house Nityananda had, are there. At GSP, there's a little building attached to the main Ashram that seems to mainly be for the local Indians to hold satsang, and not many of the Westerners seem to venture in there. That little building was the original Gavdevi ashram that Nityananda supposedly told Muk to go stay at in the several years before Nityananda passed away. In other words, Muk's original Ganeshpuri ashram before he worked to get GSP built.

SMA was called "Shree Nityananda Ashram" when I started SY since Muk was still alive. It forget the name of the hotel it used to be...but it was purchased around 1978 and came into full use around 1979 or 1980, a year before I met Muk in spring 1981. At that time, "Turiya Mandir", now known as "Muktananda Mandir" was still pretty new and had recently been revamped for its use as a large meditation hall.

And "Turiya Mandir" was VERY different from the Muktananda Mandir of today. MUCH smaller...the back section of MM used to be a separate set of rooms and the walls were knocked down to expand the meditation hall. Also, all those columns and pillars, and the opulent pujas, weren't there either. The coloring of the carpet and the walls were also very, VERY different. GM changed that hall significantly and made it a LOT more luxurious.

Oh...and the Nityananda temple was MUCH smaller and was open-air. The facility seen in GM's day was also significantly enlarged and made much more opulent. All those crystals, the statues of the gods and goddesses, etc....none of that was there in Muk's day. Just an open air small (VERY small) temple with Nityananda's murti. In winter, there was a temporary enclosure put around it with space heaters to keep the murti from freezing. Just beyond the temple was a large, oblong fountain with flagpoles and flags of all the nations that SY had ashrams and centers in. And finally...all those statues of Shiva, Jesus, Moses, Martin Luther King, etc. seen on the "silent path" (another GM addition...in Muk's day there was no Atma Nidhi nor Sadhana Kutir...only what is now Anugraha)...it was GM who moved those to the silent path. All those statues used to be near the windows on the lawn in front of the "guru's house" side of the building in Muk's day.

Anonymous said...

3. Did the first Nityananda have an actual ashram of his own that Mukt used as a model or were GSP, SMA, etc. all Mukt's own devising?

Ever been to Ganeshpuri? The temple area in town, and the house Nityananda had, are there. At GSP, there's a little building attached to the main Ashram that seems to mainly be for the local Indians to hold satsang, and not many of the Westerners seem to venture in there. That little building was the original Gavdevi ashram that Nityananda supposedly told Muk to go stay at in the several years before Nityananda passed away. In other words, Muk's original Ganeshpuri ashram before he worked to get GSP built.

SMA was called "Shree Nityananda Ashram" when I started SY since Muk was still alive. It forget the name of the hotel it used to be...but it was purchased around 1978 and came into full use around 1979 or 1980, a year before I met Muk in spring 1981. At that time, "Turiya Mandir", now known as "Muktananda Mandir" was still pretty new and had recently been revamped for its use as a large meditation hall.

And "Turiya Mandir" was VERY different from the Muktananda Mandir of today. MUCH smaller...the back section of MM used to be a separate set of rooms and the walls were knocked down to expand the meditation hall. Also, all those columns and pillars, and the opulent pujas, weren't there either. The coloring of the carpet and the walls were also very, VERY different. GM changed that hall significantly and made it a LOT more luxurious.

Oh...and the Nityananda temple was MUCH smaller and was open-air. The facility seen in GM's day was also significantly enlarged and made much more opulent. All those crystals, the statues of the gods and goddesses, etc....none of that was there in Muk's day. Just an open air small (VERY small) temple with Nityananda's murti. In winter, there was a temporary enclosure put around it with space heaters to keep the murti from freezing. Just beyond the temple was a large, oblong fountain with flagpoles and flags of all the nations that SY had ashrams and centers in. And finally...all those statues of Shiva, Jesus, Moses, Martin Luther King, etc. seen on the "silent path" (another GM addition...in Muk's day there was no Atma Nidhi nor Sadhana Kutir...only what is now Anugraha)...it was GM who moved those to the silent path. All those statues used to be near the windows on the lawn in front of the "guru's house" side of the building in Muk's day.

Anonymous said...

Argh...computer did it again.
Hit the button once and the webpage went down, and one comment got posted four or five times.

SeekHer: Please delete the redundant posts if you wish...I really didn't mean for those to get repeated like this. It's a technical problem with my PC, I think.

Anonymous said...

One more thing I forgot: The Shakti Mandap didn't exist at SMA in Muk's day, either. This was built in the late 1980's if I remember correctly.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the history lesson!

And, yes, I second the motion on SeekHer deleting redundant posts if it's not too much time consuming. (Kinda cumbersome scrolling through all these repeats.)

Thanks!

Stuart said...

At the big ceremony in Ganeshpuri, ~Oct-82 after Mukt's death, when Nit & GM sat up on their side-by-side thrones to formally become the co-gurus...

Nity grabbed GM's hand, held them high, and said, "No one will every break us apart!" Funny thing is, no one had ever said anything about breaking them apart. He must have been responding to conflicts that us ordinary devotees never saw, or in his own head. It was a clear sign that things were sketchy, right from the start.

Stuart

Anonymous said...

Stuart,

I recall that scene as well.
Wasn't physically there, but saw the video that was distributed to the local city ashrams and centers shortly thereafter.

I remember Subhash holding Malti's hand up high and very emotionally, nearly choking up, pledging to the assembled throngs that "We will never split!"

Malti did not smile, kept a complete poker face, said absolutely NOTHING and if I remember correctly, even may have kept her eyes closed as he held her hand aloft in his and made that statement.

At the time I, like a good sheep, remember thinking to myself "Oh, she must be in such a deep state she can't even speak, or is so emotionally overwhelmed that she can't talk."

Now that I'm long since out of SY, had my critical mind been functioning, an entirely different thought or conclusion might have occurred to me.

But it didn't. Not at the time.

Anonymous said...

"I remember Subhash holding Malti's hand up high and very emotionally, nearly choking up, pledging to the assembled throngs that "We will never split!"

"Malti did not smile, kept a complete poker face, said absolutely NOTHING and if I remember correctly, even may have kept her eyes closed as he held her hand aloft in his and made that statement."

That's exactly how I remember it from the video as well (local ashram).

Funny you should post this on Nityananda's birthday date.