Sunday, August 29, 2010

Comments Are Now Unmoderated on RoD

Giving this a whirl, so let's try to play nice. Trolls will have their comments deleted and be banned from coming out from under their bridges ever again.

57 comments:

Anonymous said...

I was never a "fanatic" Siddha Yogini. Maybe that's why I'm not so dissapointed about S.Y. changes.

I personally met Gurumayi, saw her many times and talked to her quite few. I also participated in S.Y. intensives, tours, seva, etc... during some years (since 1992). After that I treasures the great teachings I received, the special experiences I have, and continued with my life with no much contact with other Siddha yogis, centers or Ashrams.

I keep for myself and thank for the understanding about life and love I learned from Gurumayi and some of the Swamis.

The Guru is a Principle. The phisical person was never so important... Gurumayi said that many, many times. "Find God within yourself". That's the only point for me.

Thank you for reading this lines.

María Calandria (Madrid -Spain)

SeekHer said...

Maria:

Thank you for writing. Yours is, I think, one of the healthiest perspectives I've read from a current devotee. I hope there are many more like you---people who feel free to take the positive life lessons they learned from their experience in Siddha Yoga and leave the rest.

Anonymous said...

Oh Guru Guru Guru
The perfect connection
The song of the Heart
The finest goodness
filtered, pressed, refined
The very rarest substance
The rasa devotion
This was my gift to you.

You are still there
Stamped in the template
Of the Guru
Still there.

But the temple is disused
Moss has grown around the pillars
Cracks in the ceiling
Lost, wandering groups
Are picking the rubble
While a few sit around the door
Where you left
Refusing to move.

How emaciated
They have become!

Who knows why you did as you did?
Perhaps a lie became too great
And stalked you when you tried to sleep.
Perhaps you wanted this and that
Perhaps you will surprise us all
Perhaps you had a child
Perhaps you had cancer


But did you not know
The scriptures are heavy laden
With stories of shepherds and flocks
Not those
Who abandon their sheep.

We begged you
But we gave you too
Each one of us
Beautiful gifts
Of hesitant, opening souls
And what stories we told
Of some entrancing dawn
On the planet of Love.

And there again
Perhaps the real secret is
You were lonely
On a pillar made
By human hands.
-

SeekHer said...

Anon 10:34

beautiful. so, so beautiful

Anonymous said...

Hey SeekHer,

Speaking of “unmoderated comments,” get a load of this one posted yesterday in the comments section under the SYDA rebuttal at salon: The Case For Siddha Yoga, by D.R. Butler.

It has to be the most outrageous – and outrageously funny – letter to appear thus far in that stream.

Check it out. But first, this ex-SY advisory: you may wish refrain from drinking hot beverages while you read it, otherwise you risk scalding your computer screen as you spit with laughter – I did the latter, repeatedly. Thank goodness I’d already finished my cup of joe.

-Lucid

Anonymous said...

To Anon: September 1, 2010 10:34 AM

Your poem spoke my heart and brought tears and rememberance of how it was for me. I, yes, yes, yes, loved and trusted. Excellent imagery. Thank you for it, a real giving.

Anonymous said...

Some of the things wrong with the SY responses on Salon:

As in SY, freedom of speech is not allowed, anything critical must be squashed.

The majority if not all of the writers depend on SY either directly or indirectly through their networks for their living, so must keep the flame burning.

The writing itself is just strung together phrases we heard for decades, no original expression , as though a tape was being played.

Especially the use of the 'That was not my experience' line of argument is cynical in face of abuse.

The writers seem typically stilted and phony nice, all peace and love, as though writing for her majesty directly, as though they know she is reading all this and wish to score points.

They still despend on SY.

Anonymous said...

read your poem again anon

it is the most perfect statement

perfect

hope you keep writing somewhere

this poem is very healing

Anonymous said...

Dear Seekher,

About 3½ years ago I recieved this letter from Malti; now I feel save enough to send it to You. Hopefully you recognize it as a genuine letter from Her given to a few at that time. I realize it gives answers but at the same time it will raise a lot of questions too. For me at that time it was a bit of a shock. But now reading your comments in this blogger a lot of participants recognized the true face of Syda. Can you believe it, the Guru as a 'victim' of the organisation? Anyhow I hope many find solace in it....

"To all my Beloved Devotees who are searching
Dear all.
For some time now you have been wondering about the continuation
Of Siddha and about me. Somehow my presence is slowly eradicated from the official publications and many of you have not been able to see me. This has caused confusion worldwide.
There is a reason for that. During the last 5 years I have been contemplating about my position within the organization in relation to my own personal growth and awareness. This has led to the following revelation within me. I can no longer reconcile my presence in the way I used to be with my own self and the actions of the Siddha organization and have taken steps to change my direction. In this process I have become very ill and I am currently recovering from this. This has hastened the process which I Started.
I will never be present again as THE GURU (as head of the organization) from whom you have received so much in love, strength and direction. Simply because my aims are to bring love and the divine. The organization has a different mindset in this. But I will remain connected with you through the divine love which binds us all.
You have lived your lives and reached for the goals you have set yourself. Gurumayi, my old self and Siddha have been in your life with your personal goals as a pillar of strength, support and structure. But now it is time to look at where you, and above all, how you stand in life. Do you need a pillar for support? Do you need a structure to fall back on when it is
difficult? Or can your legs support you from within. Can you walk with me as Malti, my new self?. For if you can, we can walk together in a new form as equals embracing THE SOURCE which is in all of us.
During the last 20 years I have given all of me in support of you, the devotees, who came to me and embraced the teachings and the guidance. In equal measure I have received so much from all of you. The love and devotion are beyond human words. But there is also a shadow side to all of this. Who do you love and who are you devoted too. Is it the Guru, Gurumayi, in her radiant presence and quiet devotion or is it Malti, an earthly woman with human and earthly feelings and desires, or perhaps both. I have longed for to be loved as I really am behind the veil of made up beauty, a pretty face and the guidelines of the organization. That is part of a great sadness but I am also aware that many devotees could see past the beauty and loved me for what I really am and made a deeper connection. I am always grateful for that gift of true love.
My message to you is: You are human, just as I am and in this form we are Here to feel, live and love and experience. There is no longer a place on this earth for exaltation or devotion to something which you perceive asbeing divine or better than yourself, because something better than yourself does not exist. Religions and their leaders will fall for the divine truth is upon us in the change which occurs at present. Look within yourself because that is who you are and walk with others and with me towards a new World. If you can, I will be with you in a new way, if you can't I will slowly disappear from your life just as everything else in this world will disappear. It is the separation between the old world and the new one and I am only a small part of that. I am working on a new form and love you and look forward to embrace you all in this.
With all my love for you and all my blessings Matti Shetty (Gurumayi Chidvilasanada)"

Anonymous said...

Dear Seekher,

About 3½ years ago I recieved this letter from Malti; now I feel save enough to send it to You. Hopefully you recognize it as a genuine letter from Her given to a few at that time. I realize it gives answers but at the same time it will raise a lot of questions too. For me at that time it was a bit of a shock. But now reading your comments in this blogger a lot of participants recognized the true face of Syda. Can you believe it, the Guru as a 'victim' of the organisation? Anyhow I hope many find solace in it....

"To all my Beloved Devotees who are searching
Dear all.
For some time now you have been wondering about the continuation
Of Siddha and about me. Somehow my presence is slowly eradicated from the official publications and many of you have not been able to see me. This has caused confusion worldwide.
There is a reason for that. During the last 5 years I have been contemplating about my position within the organization in relation to my own personal growth and awareness. This has led to the following revelation within me. I can no longer reconcile my presence in the way I used to be with my own self and the actions of the Siddha organization and have taken steps to change my direction. In this process I have become very ill and I am currently recovering from this. This has hastened the process which I Started.
I will never be present again as THE GURU (as head of the organization) from whom you have received so much in love, strength and direction. Simply because my aims are to bring love and the divine. The organization has a different mindset in this. But I will remain connected with you through the divine love which binds us all.
You have lived your lives and reached for the goals you have set yourself. Gurumayi, my old self and Siddha have been in your life with your personal goals as a pillar of strength, support and structure. But now it is time to look at where you, and above all, how you stand in life. Do you need a pillar for support? Do you need a structure to fall back on when it is
difficult? Or can your legs support you from within. Can you walk with me as Malti, my new self?. For if you can, we can walk together in a new form as equals embracing THE SOURCE which is in all of us.
During the last 20 years I have given all of me in support of you, the devotees, who came to me and embraced the teachings and the guidance. In equal measure I have received so much from all of you. The love and devotion are beyond human words. But there is also a shadow side to all of this. Who do you love and who are you devoted too. Is it the Guru, Gurumayi, in her radiant presence and quiet devotion or is it Malti, an earthly woman with human and earthly feelings and desires, or perhaps both. I have longed for to be loved as I really am behind the veil of made up beauty, a pretty face and the guidelines of the organization. That is part of a great sadness but I am also aware that many devotees could see past the beauty and loved me for what I really am and made a deeper connection. I am always grateful for that gift of true love.
My message to you is: You are human, just as I am and in this form we are Here to feel, live and love and experience. There is no longer a place on this earth for exaltation or devotion to something which you perceive asbeing divine or better than yourself, because something better than yourself does not exist. Religions and their leaders will fall for the divine truth is upon us in the change which occurs at present. Look within yourself because that is who you are and walk with others and with me towards a new World. If you can, I will be with you in a new way, if you can't I will slowly disappear from your life just as everything else in this world will disappear. It is the separation between the old world and the new one and I am only a small part of that. I am working on a new form and love you and look forward to embrace you all in this.
With all my love for you and all my blessings Matti Shetty (Gurumayi Chidvilasanada)"

Anonymous said...

Dear Seekher,

About 3½ years ago I recieved this letter from Malti; now I feel save enough to send it to You. Hopefully you recognize it as a genuine letter from Her given to a few at that time. I realize it gives answers but at the same time it will raise a lot of questions too. For me at that time it was a bit of a shock. But now reading your comments in this blogger a lot of participants recognized the true face of Syda. Can you believe it, the Guru as a 'victim' of the organisation? Anyhow I hope many find solace in it....

"To all my Beloved Devotees who are searching
Dear all.
For some time now you have been wondering about the continuation
Of Siddha and about me. Somehow my presence is slowly eradicated from the official publications and many of you have not been able to see me. This has caused confusion worldwide.
There is a reason for that. During the last 5 years I have been contemplating about my position within the organization in relation to my own personal growth and awareness. This has led to the following revelation within me. I can no longer reconcile my presence in the way I used to be with my own self and the actions of the Siddha organization and have taken steps to change my direction. In this process I have become very ill and I am currently recovering from this. This has hastened the process which I Started.
I will never be present again as THE GURU (as head of the organization) from whom you have received so much in love, strength and direction. Simply because my aims are to bring love and the divine. The organization has a different mindset in this. But I will remain connected with you through the divine love which binds us all.
You have lived your lives and reached for the goals you have set yourself. Gurumayi, my old self and Siddha have been in your life with your personal goals as a pillar of strength, support and structure. But now it is time to look at where you, and above all, how you stand in life. Do you need a pillar for support? Do you need a structure to fall back on when it is
difficult? Or can your legs support you from within. Can you walk with me as Malti, my new self?. For if you can, we can walk together in a new form as equals embracing THE SOURCE which is in all of us.
During the last 20 years I have given all of me in support of you, the devotees, who came to me and embraced the teachings and the guidance. In equal measure I have received so much from all of you. The love and devotion are beyond human words. But there is also a shadow side to all of this. Who do you love and who are you devoted too. Is it the Guru, Gurumayi, in her radiant presence and quiet devotion or is it Malti, an earthly woman with human and earthly feelings and desires, or perhaps both. I have longed for to be loved as I really am behind the veil of made up beauty, a pretty face and the guidelines of the organization. That is part of a great sadness but I am also aware that many devotees could see past the beauty and loved me for what I really am and made a deeper connection. I am always grateful for that gift of true love.
My message to you is: You are human, just as I am and in this form we are Here to feel, live and love and experience. There is no longer a place on this earth for exaltation or devotion to something which you perceive asbeing divine or better than yourself, because something better than yourself does not exist. Religions and their leaders will fall for the divine truth is upon us in the change which occurs at present. Look within yourself because that is who you are and walk with others and with me towards a new World. If you can, I will be with you in a new way, if you can't I will slowly disappear from your life just as everything else in this world will disappear. It is the separation between the old world and the new one and I am only a small part of that. I am working on a new form and love you and look forward to embrace you all in this.
With all my love for you and all my blessings Matti Shetty (Gurumayi Chidvilasanada)"

melodee said...

I have been reading From Finite to Infinite... and crave shakti. I have read so much about Muktanada and Gurumayi... all the negative choices in their lives. But I still want the shaki. With your experience, I would love to have this converstation with you...

Anonymous said...

Ahh, SeekHer, great intention on the "unmoderated" decision, but the poster with the letter from Herself might make a good exception, methinks.

cobra said...

I don't think that letter is really from her since at the end she misspells her name.

SeekHer said...

There are no exceptions to unmoderated comments. The comment(s) that attached what purports to be a letter from Gurumayi, now Malti, is most welcome. I don't believe for a moment that it is from her (good catch, Cobra), but I find it interesting in a "what if" sort of way, and fascinating that indeed someone went to the trouble of making it up, and then fooled themselves into believing it is real.

Stuart said...

Thanks to Lucid for pointing me to the D.R. Butler letter/comment on salon.com. Sweet Jesus. Here's my response; direct quotes from Butler are in italics.

Response to D.R. Butler

Butler wrote...

Siddha Yoga detractors seem very serious, angry, and a bit mean-spirited. Reading what they write is generally unpleasant.

In the history of SYDA, we've had an elderly guru pressuring underaged girls into sexual encounters; we've had the guru and his people use lies and threats to cover up his activities; we've had Gurumayi using violence to attack followers of another swami whom she saw as competition in the guru business.

If we were to talk openly about such things, perhaps we could learn what caused them, and try to prevent them in the future. But D.R. Butler discourages this, because talking about violence is "unpleasant." Examining the causes of lies and exploitation is too "serious" and "mean-spirited."

Siddha Yoga practitioners are generally lighthearted, playful, and content within themselves.

Butler reflects a world-view that's common in his org. When we see lies and violence that cause suffering to others, he discourages us from getting serious about it. How much better to put on blinders to the welfare of others, so that we can remain lighthearted and playful in our own private world!

Siddhas have always been a quirkly bunch, and rarely do they fit in with conventional social standards or expectations.

Why should anyone get angry about lies and violence? Why should we be concerned about the suffering of others, about anything outside our own pleasant and playful feelings?

When Gurumayi ordered physical attacks on a "competing" guru's followers, when Muktananda diddled teenaged girls... they were just being "quirky." We should be lighthearted and playful enough to ignore such things. It would be too serious, too mean, to examine these truths.

Some people should look within more and complain less.

Pure hypocrisy. If Mr Butler really believes in looking within more, then why did he write this letter, full of his own complaints that Siddha Yoga detractors are too angry?

Stuart

Anonymous said...

To Cobra and SeekHer,

No good catch, because I know the original letter is signed by Malti (not Matti). Maybe you thought it cannot be a letter from Her because with her perfection she cannot make a spelling fault.
I suppose the letter is posted here because of the matching suggestions in many of the comments and in the poem. I'm not so sure the letter is not from Her.
Great suggestion the 'What if' kind of research. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Haven't read D.R. Butler's letter, but this quote: "Siddha Yoga practitioners are generally lighthearted, playful, and content within themselves" indicates that they either did not spend much time on the inside or they are outright lying.

The tremendous stress of being on the inside resulted in burned-out, angry, anxious, sick people.

D.R.'s letter is fabrication and not what happened.

Thanks Stuart for posting clips and commenting.

Anonymous said...

D.R.Butler: "Two comments I didn't understand: "You don't own Siddha Yoga anymore or less than I do." No, I reckon that I don't. I haven't had anything to do with Siddha Yoga since 2002. I have no idea what is currently happening with it. I don't even know why I'm here writing this, except that I've seen or heard all the same stuff from the 80's and the 90's from the same old people over and over and it's getting old. The whole 'LSY' movement has become a cult in itself. Some people are beating a dead horse trying to rectify some grievance, and they don't realize they're letting their own lives slip by in the process".

I am appalled that this is the same person I used to respect I now see is a major hypocrite. All he talks about is SY. Uses it to make money on his courses. Has open satsangs with the usual canned answers from the koolaid drinkers back slapping him. Talks about his family and wife when the heat turned up on Salon about his own diddling with the young ladies. His latest "satsang" is about "too much thinking" as if to wash away what people can now say publicly without him controlling the talks.
Think too much? That's the oldest line in the book. What controlling men say to my lady friends to shut them up. What a jerk. Hope you are reading this DR Butler.

Anonymous said...

Malti Shetty's letter was a something of a comfort, if only it was real. Have many letters from her, some handwritten, some typed by Kripananda or others. We can assume this one would have been typed as comment says it was sent to more than one person. If that is the case, just too many grammatical errors to be real. A letter like this, of this import, GM would have had proofed and read by several before going out. Not real.

Anonymous said...

Ya know we could take a cue from writer of Malti's Abdication Letter and write our own letters. What would an apology from GM look like for you? Mine might contain that she is sorry she tore me to shreds.

Anonymous said...

Again 'anonymous' projects perfection on GM, it is thanks to the errors in this letter it seems to me more authentic. No Kripananda or anybody else for emendation. This letter is written in a period when she just left SF ashram (3 and a half years ago). Within this letter she announced to be slowly eradicated from the official publications. And for many devotees at thát period of time it wasn't so obvious. A lot of people didn't even noticed it that she has left! Try to read this letter in that perspective.

Anonymous said...

Anon, you say that letter could be real? Dunno, not sure I wan't those embers to burst into flame. I'll reread and ride with the outside possibility for a bit. As Seekher said, 'what if'.

So what will she do with herself. Marry? Spend her former devotees cash? Anyway thanks. I did have a fairly personal relationship so this matters to me. Perhaps that makes me a 'fanatic'. I bought that 'drunk on God' bit. We were encouraged to be so ecstatic. Out of our minds with the love of God. SY preached that all the time. Not measured, not restrained at all.

Remember the chanting course anyone? D R U N K ! The earth moved under my feet. No more of that for SY. Now it's just preserve the teachings for future generations. This is revising history.

This explains for me why the effort to collect all of our old books, photos, letters, etc. for Shaktipunja. It was not to preserve the teachings, but to purge them.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to ask the commenter who posted the purported Malti Shetty letter to scan a copy and send the data file to SeekHer by e-mail.

Then SeekHer can look at it, and decide whether to post it for the rest of the world to see.

The poster wouldn't even have to use their own usual e-mail address. Setting up a new address is usually pretty easy and the item could easily be sent from a different IP address than usual, from, say, a public library or a Fedex Kinko's/Fedex Office.

It's a little difficult to believe without seeing any evidence.

Stuart said...

To anyone who's familiar with Malti/Gurumayi's speech and writing patterns, it's clear that the letter posted here wasn't written by her. From the letter: "For some time now you have been wondering about the continuation Of Siddha and about me." No one ever refers to the Siddha Yoga tradition, or the SYDA organization, simply as "Siddha."

Anonymous said...

Stuart said...
To anyone who's familiar with Malti/Gurumayi's speech and writing patterns, it's clear that the letter posted here wasn't written by her. From the letter: "For some time now you have been wondering about the continuation Of Siddha and about me." No one ever refers to the Siddha Yoga tradition, or the SYDA organization, simply as "Siddha."

_______________________

While the wording may or may not be true, Stuart wasn't around for the long haul of this con's time of rule. A guess or casual observation after reading the lines possibly, but not one that could be claimed as historic fact.

The letter reads as a complete fraud. Malti, Gurumayi is SYDA (the organization), Siddha Yoga.

The legal framework of SYDA's existence, as Muktananda set it up, requires a living physical guru. There is no difference between Gurumayi and SYDA. She IS SYDA, Siddha Yoga; she is its living its guru... money and all.

Even if hell freezes over, it would come as a huge surprise if this corrupt woman ever apologized for her actions, set-up accounts to help distribute money to help devotees who gave a lifetime and were thrown out in their old age. Those abused, in so many ways... the list is a long one.

She may hate that people continue to speak out about the corruption and abuse perpetrated by SYDA, Siddha Yoga and its gurus, but narcissists hate anything like this that they can't control. Never to be confused with remorse or the ability to engage in genuine self reflection.

Anonymous said...

In the history of SYDA, we've had an elderly guru pressuring underaged girls into sexual encounters; we've had the guru and his people use lies and threats to cover up his activities; we've had Gurumayi using violence to attack followers of another swami whom she saw as competition in the guru business.



Rape is rape, whether females are the age of minority or majority. It is a violent act which destroys lives for a long time. Anyone who tip toes around this and tries to contort their thought process in to believing that because a female was the age of majority, it must not have been rape and abuse when their spiritual teacher manipulated and abused them, needs help.

ANY spiritual teacher who commits this type of violent harm upon another (regardless of the age of the victim), is not someone to continue to prop up as a teacher.
It is a call for any community built around these perpetrators to admit what took place, make it openly public, and take steps to try and seek help and resolution for those abused.

REGARDLESS of their age. Wake up

Anonymous said...

Last week I had the idea, but ultimately not the energy, to write "as an exercise" the Response From The SYDA Trustees I wish they would have written at salon. Still think it would be interesting to see someone to take a serious, sincere crack at such a thing . . . if nothing else just to see if it's even possible to compose something on their behalf that might connect in some authentic, heartfelt way.

(Not sure why I still hold out hope, even in the form of fleeting-and-for-my-own-amusement writing ideas, that SYDA may one day extend that olive branch. Why would they at this point? I just can't think of any compelling motivation on their part. Um, aside from doing the right thing.)

I was also surprised someone didn't seize the opportunity while the iron was still hot at salon and actually write a letter to Gurumayi in those posts. Just an idea, but again, not one I personally had it in me to do.

Then, I see this "letter from Malti..."

I guess we're all just trying to communicate about all this in whatever way we can.

p.s. I didn't realize until days after my last post above that the D.R. Butler was Ram. Lordie! This whole thing seems more and more like a movie all the time. I still think that letter is funny though -- kind of in the way that, say, had a buddy of mine written it then read it to me I would have laughed, slapped him on the back and said "Man, you are so full of shit!"

- Lucid

Anonymous said...

I wonder if anyone knows about the financial connections between PRASAD and GM's personal financial accounts?

I've always wondered how much got "skimmed" off PRASAD's books and into GM's investment or bank accounts, and what percent actually remained inside PRASAD's finances for actual charitable work?

Anonymous said...

"Stamped in the template of the Guru" When I read this line in the poem from anon I felt the need to publish Malti's letter too, because for me the poem describes about the same issues as in ‘her’ letter: showed me her 'Human side'. What did she found out about Syda? Why the poet wrote about the cancer? Why about the child? What do we réally know about GM?

Even if the letter is false, a fraud or not authentic, it opened my eyes when I read it, three years ago, for my own misunderstanding about her and the org. I realised in what kind of way my thoughts and way of thinking was influenced. Despite the fact I never regretted my SYperiod, I felt I woke up again after leaving it. Couldn’t that be the same thing about our ‘so called’ Guru? She herself has believed and was told to be the Perfect Master, now she presents herself in her letter also as a human being able to make mistakes.

So indeed Seekher 'what if'! If it was Malti’s finding out about the darkside of org. and wanted to leave the organisation, would they let her go "just like that"?. Probably she had to sign for it to keep it silent, like many swami’s ( and others) earlier. Why is the organisation still pretending she is there?. The show must go on ... the interests were and still are too big.
Who can tell who benefits the most from Dakshina. Who is/are the one(s) with the power behind the scene? Even the New Years messages by audio were probably manipulated, because in no way G in her talk referred to an important incident from actual news! In other words ‘keeping up appearances” that she is still there.


And it is for thát reason I couldn't publish the letter before... I felt it wasn't save .......for Her….and for me….and others. Isn’t that why so many people stay anonymous when they want to speak up? To be honest in that time I didn’t want to underestimate it, although now I don’t have fears anymore.

And as everybody else of course she is responsible, but who can tell me if she is not taking it? Maybe it is not in a way people want to get it , like an apology, or by coming out from her hiding place…Who knows.
Madame Zorro

Anonymous said...

"Stamped in the template of the Guru" When I read this line in the poem from anon I felt the need to publish Malti's letter too, because for me the poem describes about the same issues as in ‘her’ letter: showed me her 'Human side'. What did she found out about Syda? Why the poet wrote about the cancer? Why about the child? What do we réally know about GM?

Even if the letter is false, a fraud or not authentic, it opened my eyes when I read it, three years ago, for my own misunderstanding about her and the org. I realised in what kind of way my thoughts and way of thinking was influenced. Despite the fact I never regretted my SYperiod, I felt I woke up again after leaving it. Couldn’t that be the same thing about our ‘so called’ Guru? She herself has believed and was told to be the Perfect Master, now she presents herself in her letter also as a human being able to make mistakes.

So indeed Seekher 'what if'! If it was Malti’s finding out about the darkside of org. and wanted to leave the organisation, would they let her go "just like that"?. Probably she had to sign for it to keep it silent, like many swami’s ( and others) earlier. Why is the organisation still pretending she is there?. The show must go on ... the interests were and still are too big.
Who can tell who benefits the most from Dakshina. Who is/are the one(s) with the power behind the scene? Even the New Years messages by audio were probably manipulated, because in no way G in her talk referred to an important incident from actual news! In other words ‘keeping up appearances” that she is still there.


And it is for thát reason I couldn't publish the letter before... I felt it wasn't save .......for Her….and for me….and others. Isn’t that why so many people stay anonymous when they want to speak up? To be honest in that time I didn’t want to underestimate it, although now I don’t have fears anymore.

And as everybody else of course she is responsible, but who can tell me if she is not taking it? Maybe it is not in a way people want to get it , like an apology, or by coming out from her hiding place…Who knows.
Madame Zorro

Anonymous said...

Even if the letter is false, a fraud or not authentic, it opened my eyes when I read it, three years ago, for my own misunderstanding about her and the org. I realised in what kind of way my thoughts and way of thinking was influenced. Despite the fact I never regretted my SYperiod, I felt I woke up again after leaving it. Couldn’t that be the same thing about our ‘so called’ Guru? She herself has believed and was told to be the Perfect Master, now she presents herself in her letter also as a human being able to make mistakes.

So indeed Seekher 'what if'! If it was Malti’s finding out about the darkside of org. and wanted to leave the organisation, would they let her go "just like that"?. Probably she had to sign for it to keep it silent, like many swami’s ( and others) earlier. Why is the organisation still pretending she is there?. The show must go on ... the interests were and still are too big.
Who can tell who benefits the most from Dakshina. Who is/are the one(s) with the power behind the scene? Even the New Years messages by audio were probably manipulated, because in no way G in her talk referred to an important incident from actual news! In other words ‘keeping up appearances” that she is still there.



Gurumayi has been seen in the past few years by those who have been in the ashram at South Fallsburg. She makes only enough appearances to keep up the legal requirement for SYDA, Siddha Yoga to maintain its tax exempt status.

Send a copy of your letter to the public officials of South Fallsburg and Sullivan County, New York tax departments (where SYDA, Siddha Yoga's tax exempt status is registered). I'm sure they would be very interested to discover Gurumayi has separated herself from the organization in this fashion. She IS the organization, there is no difference. The legal framework Muktananda set up requires for her (or a living guru) to be in her position, or the organization folds and cannot hold a tax exempt status.

It may be the silver lining in the cloud if you want to continue to claim this letter is authentic. Send it off to these public officials. Post here the name of the public official(s) and departments you send it to so that members of this community can check with these sources to verify its receipt.

Let them investigate these claims. If they find it authentic, let them begin to fully tax SYDA, Siddha Yoga, as it would no longer be meeting its legal requirements for tax exampt status.

Awaiting your publication on this site of who you send it to for verification with these public officials.

Anonymous said...

Stuart's comment was great--read it first on the Salon comment page.

The "letter" is so clearly not written by GM--not just the grammar, but the syntax, the word use, what Stuart pointed out about the use of "Siddha" as shorthand for Siddha Yoga, many other things. It's just not the way she expresses herself, in any way. Ludicrous claim.

It surprised me how many people responding on Salon were unaware that D.R. Butler is Ram. Can't blame him for trying to make a living doing what he's always done, I guess. What else could he do?

It's over, folks. Face it.

older but wiser

Anonymous said...

Now this "letter from Malti" has me wondering:

Even if GM did in fact want to write a letter to the devotees, could she? By that I mean, could she get such a thing distributed without being censored? Is she still in a position within the org to do what she wants the way she wants when she wants? Does whoever's still there keeping the dream alive still bow to her?

- Lucid

Anonymous said...

I have long been a sympathetic reader of this site, and will almost certainly continue to visit. Unfortunately, though, we've hit a stage where we're like kids playing around an abandoned house, making up stories about the old lady/witch who lives inside, when actually she is long gone.

Or, alternatively, think 'Boo Radley,' except that Boo never shows up, and is unlikely to be nearly so sympathetic or heroic if he/she did step back into the light of day. Perhaps now some of us at least are hoping the GM is more like Boo, held captive by the Foundation, who will some day step forth into the light of day...but I digress.

The 'ashram' against which we rail at this point is something of a haunted house, though our imaginations are beginning to spin as we create tales about the 'Foundation.'

I don't mean to trivialize any of what has gone on, nor the significance of our discussions here, which have been a significant part of my own 'Rituals of Disenchantment' over the last few years. It's just sad (and in some ways a little unhealthy) to continue to rage and fulminate at the specters playing in the shadows of a haunted house.

D

Anonymous said...

Something an instructor of mine said years ago in a lecture on the importance of transparency in leadership is this:

"In the absence of information people create their own story."

- Lucid

Anonymous said...

One last try on this site as the posts with information regarding Stuart Resnick and his teacher Seung Sahn have been deleted at 100%.

If this is deleted I will assume that this site holds the position of protecting Stuart Resnick and not allowing this community the opportunity to research and understand Stuart's long involvement with the cult group of Seung Sahn after leaving Siddha Yoga and Muktananda.

Stuart Resnick has long inserted himself in to the ex Siddha Yoga community without disclosure of this involvement. Stuart Resnick has long tried to use the "blame the victim" reasoning with adult females who have been sexually abused by their spiritual teachers. Stuart Resnick has reworked in his mind the meaning of the word "consentual" for the abuse these women have suffered.

For each person who has been abused by a spiritual leader, whether it be in Siddha Yoga or another group, and to all in this community, you have the right to be fully informed of this history so you do not allow yourself to be pulled in to any further conflict by this person's posting style.

Go to

http://www.rickross.com

Enter the name Seung Sahn in the search engine box located at the end of the column with the entries which read

Getting Help
Group Information Archives
etc.

Then hit Go

SeekHer said...

D

I understand your haunted house metaphor, but I don't buy it. If G had folded up shop, put out a press release saying she was stepping down from the chair and we were still here seven years later fulminating about past wrongs and lost time, then you would have a point. But G (or exactly more to the point, the SYDA Foundation) still pretends she is around and it is business as usual, when that is certainly not true. If anyone is making up imaginary inhabitants to people an empty house, it is them.

This is what stops many people from moving on in their own lives. You can see it in the letters from the pro-SYDA crowd over at Salon (whose expose on Siddha Yoga sparked this latest wave of comments here). The people who wrote in to defend both G and SYDA seemed trapped in amber, simultaneously effusive and non-committal about their current practice, as if revealing too much might get them barred at the door of their local center or, equally likely, because they really don't have much to say because there isn't much going on and they are really talking about their memories of the path as it was in the golden years.

I think a more apt metaphor is that of a family in the midst of a missing person crisis. At some point at least some members of the family accept the inevitable, give the loved one up for dead, and attempt to move on. Others, lacking a cold body to grieve over, never give up and are only too happy to believe charlatans who prey on their false hopes with stories that the person was seen by a friend of a friend of a friend, somewhere at sometime.

How sad that so many in Siddha Yoga seem content to rationalize G's continued existence due to a few casually tossed off phantom sightings--"yes, she was giving programs in Fallsburg last summer", or, "she was in Ganeshpuri last month; Gargi knows someone who saw here there."

Now, while I disagree with you about WHY we are all still here, I do think you have a very valid point about WHETHER we should all still be here. After this latest round of innies and outties duking it out at Salon, I for one am ready to give up on those who cannot give up hope. They are simply deluded beyond any reach. And yes, that does mean it is time to move on myself, having completed my disenchantment with the path through this blog, and no longer having any real hope of offering the same liberation to those who cling tenaciously to the Guru's feet.

Anonymous said...

Hi Seekher,

I do get your point and appreciate it, as I do all of your posts. And I agree that the more apt metaphor is that of a missing family member.

I guess that, like you, I'm turning toward looking after my own health. I'm still drawn to the discussion here at your blog, and perhaps I'm projecting the feeling that we're like kids playing around an abandoned house -- knowing it's abandoned (for us, at least) and yet entertaining each other with stories about it. The 'kid' is me, and I can't quite pull myself away from the house.

In some cases people seem to be trying to transform the myth of GM -- making her somehow a victim of the foundation, which is why I liked that myth to Boo Radley. I'm confounded that anyone could actually suggest such a thing.

I liked Lucid's comment that in the absence of information, people make up their own stories. The stories we're seeing, such as the fabricated letter from GM, are starting to spin a little more wildly.

I'm paying attention to what response is invoked in me by reading such things -- it often makes me feel like crap, and I wonder what good I'm doing myself by indulging in it.

This morning I again had a vivid dream of going back to Ganeshpuri, and awoke knowing that it will never happen (even if I did make the trip). I spent years there and know every bit of the reality of living there (without privileged status), yet in my dreams it is still an amazing paradise.

At least the dreams in which GM is even colder, more critical and meaner than in 'real life' have faded.

Am I over this? Obviously not quite yet.

D

cobra said...

If any of us ever do get over it it will be a long slow process, and it will take a lot of patience and being good to ourselves. We are not at fault here, she didn't go away because of some failing in us so please nobody blame yourself. If anything she is at fault for not living up to what SYDA promised us, a living guru. Remember hearing, "If you take one step towards the Guru she will take 10 steps towards you"?
Yeah, not so much now. I challenge SYDA to give us the real reason for whats going on, not empty platitudes and assurances that everything is business as usual.

Anonymous said...

Cobra said "I challenge SYDA to give us the real reason for what's going on, not empty platitudes and assurances that everything is business as usual."

Cobra, this is going to come out harsher-sounding than I really mean it. While it is intended to be as cynical and sarcastic as it sounds, it is not meant to be harsh. Instead, I truly mean this as gently, and warmly, and as softly, and compssionately as i can, as I say:

"Good luck with that one!"

SeekHer,

Does this mean you're shutting down the blog soon?

SeekHer said...

D.

I never lived in Ganeshpuri but I visited in 87, and the morning I returned I sat in a coffee shop on 1st Avenue and wept that I was in its silent gardens no more. I like your haunted house metaphor better now that I understand it's we "outties" who haunt it with the ghosts of tenacious memory.

If pornography offends it is because it violates the essential privacy of sexual union. But there is something even more private than sex and that is grief. Much of the revulsion the "innies" feel toward us "outties" is that we embody and manifest the grief of the sangham. We are the whore-priestesses of whatever follows belief, whatever flowers from the blasted trunk of disenchantment.

Cobra. At times when I think of my years in Siddha Yoga I feel--- embarrassment. Possibly probably that is a defense mechanism. It's certainly a sign that I've attained a degree of detachment--the true believer feels no shame. But then I think that I'm not being fair to myself. The path meant so much to me for so long and I gave so much of myself to it; there is no reason to be ashamed at having loved, and attempting to love unconditionally. This is one of the ways I try to put into practice your excellent advice that we be good to ourselves.

Anon: I'm guessing that Cobra holds out no more hope than you do that SYDA will come clean. Still, it's important that we say it, that we all issue the same challenge. It's the clamor that will bring down the walls of Jericho.

I'm still here. You all keep writing intelligent things and I will keep responding. But RoD will change going forward. A few days ago I posted a video of a song by The Slackers that I love, and whose lyrics are so terrible and beautiful and strange that I can only conceive of them as either the world's most gorgeous suicide note--or the goodbye we've all been waiting for from G. Expect more dispatches like this, of things that remind me of the path but from the hard-won distance we who have completed our disenchantment like to maintain.

Anonymous said...

It strikes me as sadly apropos: a path that emerged thirty years ago shrouded in secrecy now retreats back into the shadows, still cloaked in the same.

-Lucid

Anonymous said...

Seeker wrote: “But then I think that I'm not being fair to myself. The path meant so much to me for so long and I gave so much of myself to it; there is no reason to be ashamed at having loved, and attempting to love unconditionally.”

***

Perhaps it was something that somebody mentioned in the din of Salon’s drawing battle lines that stirred a pang of reverie. It was, perhaps, some fanciful offering of a large public program to be held in So. Fallsburg. It caught my eye and plunged its owner to sudden desire for what had once been. The days of the well tended park-like drive, its wild flowers and flowing grasses, together they ushered pilgrims through paved hallways of gentle slopes and rising mounds, transporting one off the mundane humdrum of gray public pavement, to the nestled enchantment of Siddha Yoga’s mountain grown Shangri La.

It flared in memory like a carrot, or a flame. So am I a horse or a moth? And yet four years plus since I hopped the barbed fence, bloodied for the effort, for no long timer reaches the guru-free zone unscathed in their escaping. But what if it were true, this flickering of hypothetical consideration, that convocation could re-materialize from long retreat. What then when part of me was still eager and several hundred anti-postings later, on various blogs, could not weight upon me or refrain the horse or moth from doing what for them comes naturally.

The pull. I was surprised by the sudden show of strength. Its grasp took fast, and like that, I was wanting. Not that should there be something to go to I would again give them access to my wallet, or sign up for a course, or buy from bookstore page or sound or trinket. Not that I would hang on GM’s every word, or bow head or fold hands as in days gone by when her presence in the hall announced itself to me, buzzing the subtle nerves in advance of eyes perceiving – now if there were any buzz from said aura to emit among the masses. In fact I imagine I’d skip darshan, maybe the whole program - lack of interest you know. A visit with Bade Baba though, the Bade now a misnomer through subtraction of a Baba that’s a Baba no more. Food! Of course food, swank Amrit or proletarian dining hall, but just say nay to Kool Aid.

Not for the Kool Aid mind you but the comfort, the jubilation, the inexplicable tingle of this rarified air; approaching the building from the lot, the evergreen lined entrance to the white palace (designed oddly in the building’s back), closer, a high elevation stroll towards palpable expansion - greater than yourself - mingling with others who know palpable too.

It’ boarding a ship not sea worthy and sinking, an alluring Jezebel with crabs, the perfumed cover of something gone smelly; a sandwich sneezed upon behind a counter - the telling whites bloodshot, the nose running, the voice rasped. It’s flu season and probably better to bite the bullet than the bread and chuck the later in the garbage.

And be gentle with yourself cause you’re hungry and your stomach is growling and sometimes it burps up an epithet.

MBG

Anonymous said...

GM's is an old story....and a today story...

Came across book by Willism Golding, "The Double Tongue" Conversations between the priestess and her counselor straight out of SY backroom discussions. If you were inside this is fascinating inside look at managing temple economics and marketing.

From a review online...credit Google

"During the time of Julius Caesar in Rome, a young virgin in Greece, living in a small village near Delphi, was chosen to be a successor to the Pythia or Oracle.

Arieka, as she was called, was to be the Third Lady, essentially an oracular lady-in-waiting, to be available to replace the Second Lady after her ascension to First Lady, the seer who spoke for the gods.


Arieka spent her time reading in the Bookroom, one small part of which contained Roman books written in Latin. The room was therefore called by the Latin name for book, librarium. Her mentor, Ionides, told her that Latin is, "a language with too much grammar and no literature." That is certainly true of Latin today. Latin's sole remaining uses are for naming things, like plants in botany, drugs in medicine, and legal concepts in law.


When the First Lady and Second Lady died within weeks of each other, Arieka was pressed into service as the Pythia. Immediately she had to sit in the seat, breathe the gases from the hole in the cliff, and burn laurel leaves to inhale and go into a trance. At first Ionides gave his carefully prepared answers to important political questions of the oracle, using intelligence he gathered from the Internet of the time: carrier pigeons from other major oracles.

Soon Arieka began to give oracular answers on her own in hexameter verse, as the Pythias in the distant past had done.




In addition Golding adds a sprinkling of his own insights into diverse subjects. An example is when during a procession of international dignitaries to Delphi, he has Arieka say:


[page 66] The back of a crowd, according to Ionides, is where the true nature on an international relationship may be studied in little.

A view behind the scenes of the Temple of Delphi.

My take: The priest and his oracel were cynical and at the same time sympathetic somehow. Both at once. Found the book shed light on my SY experience.

Thanks Seekher for the company.

Anonymous said...

Dear Seekher
A reaction on Lucid's questions,

Now this "letter from Malti" has me wondering:

Even if GM did in fact want to write a letter to the devotees, could she? By that I mean, could she get such a thing distributed without being censored?
******
You have the assumption G was in the ashram....But she wasn't there at all! I got this letter when rumours were brushed aside by the organisation,that she was probably ill (in 2007).....
Lucid, I really invite you to read the letter again, what is it/she is telling us? Why would someone else would make this up? Otherwise it must have been written by someone verywell informed or some one who could see G's future. Because because because ....the things she mentioned became thruth.

*********
Is she still in a position within the org to do what she wants the way she wants when she wants?
***
That is what happens, even if we are 'out', we keep thinking in a limited way. The teacher who said people create their own story by lack of transparancy is probably right, but the possitive part of it, is the proces itself. I think by questioning more and more, keeping your eyes open for synchronicities(!),you are able to look beyond boundaries finding Reality ( which are even beyond belief).
To be honest I think it is rather a job for the org in SF, to keep the lies going on. ...ever heard of 'stand in' people ( actors)?
MME Zorro

SeekHer said...

ANON 9/23/9:02

Is this the same William Golding who wrote Lord of the Flies? Interesting that you are finding parallels in your reading of ancient Roman history with your time in Siddha Yoga.
Coincidentally, just last night I finished reading Robert Graves' "I, Claudius" and began "Claudius the God." Fascinating, compulsively readable stuff. When Caligula declares himself a God and everyone who comes before him must fall flat on their faces in his presence--and when he dedicates temples to himself and his predecessors and appoints priests and priestesses to develop a liturgy and chants and rituals to worship him---well, let's just say I didn't need to struggle to find a modern parallel.

Anonymous said...

Seekher,
Yes same William Golding. Will look for Graves' Claudius. Power corrupts.

Anonymous said...

Do we really know Malti's real writing style? Her speeches were all written by others (mostly Durgananda) and massaged by committees. I remember there used to be this disjuncture from when she went from reading the speeches to ad libbing - mostly tormenting, teasing and making fun of the people around her. It was like a split personality. Except the speeches wern't really her in the first place.

I still don't think the letter is real. It speaks as if SYDA were directing Malti, not the other way around. She has always been in charge and she knows how to play power politics. See how she dealt with her brother. Maybe the only person she couldn't control was George.

I know people who've visited her in SF in last few years. But for the most part she has been in hiding since she turned 50. There haven't been any published photos of her since she turned 40. What we have here is someone living on past glory.

Gorakh

Anonymous said...

Re: "Ram" D. R. Butler saying "Siddha Yoga detractors seem very serious, angry, and a bit mean-spirited. Reading what they write is generally unpleasant." Whereas, he says, "Siddha Yoga practitioners are generally lighthearted, playful, and content within themselves."

Come on. GIve me a break. Does he really expect that to fly? But it makes for good opposition. Since the majority of his followers are SY people, they all get to preen and assure themselves they are superior to those mean-spirited detractors. Nice ego boost to keep them coming back for more of Mr. D. R. Butler. Or is he Ram these days? Or did he have to give up the name Ram when he got booted from the ashram? I've heard he isn't legally allowed to use Muktananda or Gurumayi's name, but not certain if that is true.

Mr. Butler wishes all the negative noise about SY would stop because it happens to include him and his past, or what he refers to as a "karmic hiccup." Yes, that must be what it is when you cheat on your wife, lie, and abuse your power as a spiritual teacher to get spiritual seekers into your bed over a period of many years.

He says, "I don't even know why I'm here writing this..." What? He doesn't know why he is writing? No clue? No reason? No agenda?

SY is based on a fabrication of Muktananda carrying on a lineage from Nitayananda all the way back to Shiva. Come on. And then Chid rewrote SY history when she cut out any evidence of her brother. The history of sexual abuse in SY has also been denied. Yes, I can see why most Siddha Yoga practitioners are light-hearted. There's a lot to laugh about.

One reason people write about this - yes - still - is because the lies are so strong. Mr. Butler relies - yes - still - upon his association with SY to keep making - yes - still - money. He's got a vested interest. So we should accept his word that SY detactors who do not support the lies are mean-spirited? That's having a mean spirit? Does that mean he and all the other SY's have nice spirits?

Listen, ya'll. None of those nice-spirited SY folks are ever gonna admit or take responsibility for their mistakes. Not happening. Especially when there is still money to be made and power to be had. They can trample on people's spirits and come out content with themselves. They were just being playful after all. So their hearts are light. Full of light. And those who were hurt, why, they are just mean-spirited.

So there is some truth to "letting your lives slip by"-- there must be an acceptance that those who created the most harm just don't care. They will make excuses and rationalize their behavior, do anything but come to terms with the pain they caused, because to do so would mean facing a pain inside so great they can't even look at it.

So I agree, don't let your lives slip by waiting for the wrong-doers to admit, own up, apologize or in any way come clean or change. Ain't gonna happen. And that is to their detriment. But that does not mean that each person who was hurt cannot heal. Good bye for now - just call me Joe.

Anonymous said...

Regarding Butler's comments again -- don't let slide that he cleverly uses the word "detractor" in a diabolic way to refer to those who dare to speak publicly about the abuses of Siddha Yoga. Using the word "detractor" is an attempt to disparage those who disagree with him and with SY. He is clearly in delusion, denial, and using the evil gambit of diverting blame to the victims.

Definition of the word detractor? critic, disparager, denigrator, deprecator, belittler, attacker, fault-finder, backbiter; slanderer, libeler; informal knocker: to take away a part; remove some of the quality or worth.

No one who tells the facts about their abuse with SY or Mr. Butler is a detractor. They are human beings who were seeking God and were hurt by those who misused their power for their own profit, benefit, and EGO. Those who hurt others are the ones who have removed some of their own worth. No one did it to them. They have defamed themselves by their own evil actions. As they say in police circles, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Unlike common criminals, which they are, those who did the crimes have not been held accountable for them. They continue to lie and mislead others. They have not publicly acknowledged their crimes. Butler's concession to some of his misdeeds, is a "karmic hiccup." Oh wait, am I getting too serious here? Ha ha ha. Feel better now, Mr. Butler?

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Anonymous said...

The letter is clearly not from Guru Maya, who is far better educated than the person who wrote this letter. Her use of language is complex and this letter's use of language is basic. It is written by someone with no tertiary education and an IQ that is below average. In contrast, Guru Maya is highly educated and intelligent - regardless of what you think of her as a spiritual teacher.